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! guided tour
001 Differentiation
002 'Real' maths
003 Fractions
004 Manipulatives
005 Assessment
006 What technology?
007 Adult curriculum
008 Reflective Learners
009 Engagement
010 Class Time Use
011 Why I hate maths
012 Terminology
013 'Mathphobia'
014 The Nature of Maths
015 Show and Tell
016 Vertical Integration
017 Product to Process
018 Investigation Length
019 Preparation for Work
020 Success in Mathematics
021 Groupwork
022 Effective lessons
023 Impact of ICT
024 Mathematics Websites
028 Why under 16?
2010.07.15 Differentiation
2010.07.19 Differentiation (2)
2010.07.22 'Real' maths
2010.07.26 'Real' maths (2)
2010.07.29 Fractions
2010.08.02 Fractions (2)
2010.08.05 Manipulatives
2010.08.09 Manipulatives (2)
2010.08.12 Assessment
2010.08.16 Assessment (2)
2010.08.19 What tech?
2010.08.23 What tech? (2)
2010.08.26 Adult maths
2010.08.30 Adult maths (2)
2010.09.02 Reflective learner
2010.09.06 Reflective learner 2
2010.09.09 Engagement
2010.09.13 Engagement 2
2010.09.16 Class Time Use
2010.09.20 Class Time Use 2
2010.09.23 Why I hate maths
2010.09.27 Why I hate math 2
2010.09.30 Terminology
2010.10.04 Terminology 2
2010.10.07 'Mathphobia'
2010.10.11 'Mathphobia' (2)
2010.10.14 Nature of Maths
2010.10.18 Nature of Maths (2)
2010.10.21 Show and Tell
2010.10.25 Show and Tell (2)
2010.10.28 Vertical Integration
2010.11.01 Vertical Integratn 2
2010.11.04 Product to Process
2010.11.08 Product to Proc. 2
2010.11.11 Investigation length
2010.11.15 Investigation leng 2
2010.11.18 Prepn for work
2010.11.22 Prepn for work 2
2010.11.25 Success in Maths
2010.12.03 Groupwork
2010.12.06 Groupwork 2
2010.12.10 Effective lessons
2010.12.13 Effective Lesson 2
2010.12.17 Impact of ICT
2010.12.20 Impact of ICT 2
2010.12.24 Maths Websites
2011.01.03 Maths Website 2
2011.01.07 Ideal curriculum
2011.01.10 Ideal curriculum 2
2011.01.14 Short or longterm
2011.01.17 Short or longterm2
2011.01.21 Continuing PD
2011.01.24 Continuing PD 2
2011.01.28 Why under 16?
2011.01.31 Why under 16? (2)
2011.02.04 Which is more fun?
2011.02.11 Blended learning
2011.02.14 Blended learning 2
2011.02.18 Fast tracking
2011.02.21 Fast tracking (2)
2011.02.25 Misconceptions
2011.02.28 Misconceptions 2
2011.03.04 Good Reads
2011.03.07 Good Reads (2)
2011.03.11 How do I  fractions
2011.03.18 How do I  lang
2011.03.21 How do I  lang (2)
2011.03.25 How do I  curric
2011.03.28 How do I  curric 2
2011.04.01 How?  next topic
2011.04.04 How?  nxt topic 2
2011.04.08 How?  Geometry
2011.04.11 How?  Geom 2
2011.04.15 How?Investigation
2011.04.18 How?Investigatn 2
2011.04.22 How? Do vs. learn
2011.04.25 How?Do vs learn 2
2011.04.29 How?Dig deeper
2011.05.02 How?Dig deeper 2
2011.05.06 'Big Ideas'
2011.05.09 'Big Ideas' (2)
2011.05.13 High school skill
2011.05.16 High school skill 2
2011.05.20 Journals
2011.05.23 Journals (2)
2011.05.27 Studentdriven
2011.05.30 Studentdriven (2)
2011.06.03 How?  Maths play
2011.06.06 How?Maths play 2
2011.06.10 Deeper thinking
2011.06.13 Deeper thinking (2)
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed 2
2011.06.24 How?  Problems
2011.06.27 How?  Problems 2
2011.07.01 Holiday maths
2011.10.28 Extent of plans
2011.10.31 Extent of plans (2)
2011.11.04 Authentic is..?
2011.11.07 Authentic is..? (2)
Z_1 Thursday raw
Z_2 Monday raw
Z_consolidated
2011.01.17 Short or longterm2
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Topic (followup to Friday, 14th January 2011):
Should mathematics lessons be planned and designed for longterm or shortterm effect?
As it happened on
Monday, 17th January 2011, 20:30  22:00 GMT
8:34 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Hello everyone, welcome to today's #
mathchat
8:35 pm
ColinTGraham
:
The topic is: Should mathematics lessons be planned and designed for longterm or shortterm effect? #
mathchat
8:37 pm
ColinTGraham
:
What we never really pinned down the first time through, was what we see as being longterm and shortterm #
mathchat
8:39 pm
ColinTGraham
:
We also might want to consider the difference between lesson design and lesson planning #
mathchat
8:39 pm
dweksler
:
Is it too simple to make it a digital choice, long OR short term? #
mathchat
8:40 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
dweksler
Maybe, David, but at some point, one or other will tend to take precedence. The question is how that choice is made. #
mathchat
8:44 pm
chris_1974
:
unfortunately ofsted seems to look only at short term gain in lessons, what can they do at end that they cannot do at start. #
mathchat
8:45 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Another way of asking the question is to say: How do you decide on the balance between shortterm demands & longterm gain? #
mathchat
8:45 pm
chris_1974
:
there needs to be more focus on long term, problem solving skills (crops up week after week) and interprestation. #
mathchat
8:46 pm
dweksler
:
Does it make sense to think about learning skills==short term while seeing applications and connections are the longterm goals? #
mathchat
8:46 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
chris_1974
OfSTED (government inspectorate in the UK) is only one factor, though, albeit a fairly weighty one! #
mathchat
8:47 pm
chris_1974
:
@
dweksler
how to do trig = short term, how to use trig = long term, for example? #
mathchat
8:47 pm
chris_1974
:
@
chris_1974
many internal audits use same criteria also. #
mathchat
8:48 pm
chris_1974
:
@
ColinTGraham
many internal audits use same criteria also. #
mathchat
(replied to self  D'Oh)
8:48 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
dweksler
That's one way David. I also see building smallscale achievements and successes into lessons as part of confidence bldg #
mathchat
8:48 pm
dweksler
:
Understanding the trig in a right triangle  determing the height of a lampost from its shadow  an example? #
mathchat
8:49 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
chris_1974
Internal audits, by their nature, are intended to ensure 'the system' is being followed. #
mathchat
8:50 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
chris_1974
Although we'd like to change the system... what do you see as the longterm/shortterm within its constraints? #
mathchat
8:52 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
dweksler
Accepting your short=learning skills, long=applications and connections, you still need to choose how to design lessons. #
mathchat
8:54 pm
chris_1974
:
within a lesson my plan is usually to try and work with the skill, and build up to applications and uses. #
mathchat
8:56 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
chris_1974
So are you taking the school year as the boundary for your scheme of work, or the next key stage exam or...? #
mathchat
8:56 pm
dweksler
:
Holding the two in your head at the same time describes my interest in problem/projectbased learning  keep the big goal in mind #
mathchat
8:57 pm
chris_1974
:
@
ColinTGraham
Hmm. SoW? I have a personal tendency to go too far! Quaratics w/ Y10? Why not discuss imag. numbers? #
mathchat
8:59 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
dweksler
In a PBL approach, do you look at each project as a longterm or midterm goal? #
mathchat
9:00 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
chris_1974
The question is, do you discuss imag. numbers with Y10 (14yo) if they can handle it? #
mathchat
9:03 pm
chris_1974
:
@
ColinTGraham
of course. Have also done shortest path analysis for 13 y.o. and networks.maths should be engaging. #
mathchat
9:03 pm
chris_1974
:
@
ColinTGraham
also with able students they need to know where it is going. Lots of statements like "When you do A level / degree". #
mathchat
9:03 pm
dweksler
:
@
ColinTGraham
IThere are short, mid and long term goals involved. Completing the project  building a bridge  is the goal #
mathchat
9:05 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
chris_1974
What about those not intending to do Alevel/degree? Do you get questioned about how it fits with the GCSE curriculum? #
mathchat
9:07 pm
chris_1974
:
@
ColinTGraham
in terms of maths, I'm the boss, so no awkward questions. ALL need to see how it fits to world around them. #
mathchat
9:07 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
dweksler
How do the timing of projects and lesson length impact each other? What do you need to do in the shortterm? #
mathchat
9:09 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
chris_1974
What advice would you give to teachers who are not the boss, in terms of trying to do what you do in your lessons? #
mathchat
9:13 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Let's open up the discussion a little and ask: What can successfully be done in the shortterm and what needs more time? #
mathchat
9:14 pm
chris_1974
:
@
ColinTGraham
it's difficult to pin down. We need to get across the usefulness of maths, and our enthusiasm for the subject. #
mathchat
9:18 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Most countries have some kind of major test at 11/12, 15/16, 18/19yo. Can/should lessons ignore looming deadlines for longterm? #
mathchat
9:19 pm
teachdig
:
The biggest problem I find with short term is the long term retention of ideas does not come if not revisited. #
mathchat
9:20 pm
teachdig
:
I think the ideas of logic and number sense are long term goals. The question "Does this make sense?" should be a long term idea. #
mathchat
9:21 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
teachdig
Do you see the shortterm as a lesson, or a period of time within a lesson or something else, Dvora? #
mathchat
9:24 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Any other longterm ideas for mathematical thinking? RT @
teachdig
: ... "Does this make sense?" should be a long term idea. #
mathchat
9:26 pm
ColinTGraham
:
For example: "Where does this lead?" "What does this connect to?" could both be used in the short term for longterm effects #
mathchat
9:26 pm
teachdig
:
@
ColinTGraham
I see it as an idea being covered... oft 1 lesson but depends on type of schedule. #
mathchat
9:27 pm
CarissaJuneK
:
@
teachdig
I think too much of the time we teach steps for specifics problems, not enough logical thinking and general steps #
mathchat
9:27 pm
teachdig
:
"What does this connect to?" is a great way to bridge from short to long term. #
mathchat
9:28 pm
dweksler
:
How about "When will this be used?" as background music in math class? #
mathchat
9:28 pm
ColinTGraham
:
"Where else can this be used?" is also useful. RT @
dweksler
How about "When will this be used?" as background music in math class? #
mathchat
9:29 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
CarissaJuneK
Maybe the shortest term is finding the answer to a specific problem. Perhaps too much weight is attached to that. #
mathchat
9:30 pm
CarissaJuneK
:
@
ColinTGraham
for example teaching slope intercept form as y=ax+k and discussing what a does as similar to vertex form y=a(xh)+k #
mathchat
9:30 pm
ColinTGraham
:
RT @
CarissaJuneK
: at least in US we are tested so much, we teach gimmicks to learn concepts. Where as we should be relating topics #
mathchat
9:31 pm
CarissaJuneK
:
@
ColinTGraham
whole heartedly agree, we test every year from 7yo to 17 yo #
mathchat
9:31 pm
teachdig
:
@
CarissaJuneK
Very true. It can be hard to step back and let Ss explore. Time becomes a factor. #
mathchat
9:32 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Maybe all of the ideas or shortterm steps have been grouped into so many separate groups that maths teaching has fractured #
mathchat
9:32 pm
ColinTGraham
:
RT @
DCraig42
@
CarissaJuneK
gimmicks are sometimes the only way to get through mandated material is this test test world we live in #
mathchat
9:33 pm
teachdig
:
@
ColinTGraham
I think true. I do prefer integrated math for that reason though still too much content to allow time for thought. #
mathchat
9:34 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
teachdig
Time is at the heart of most of what we need to think about in teaching! Not all Ss are comfortable exploring... #
mathchat
9:35 pm
CarissaJuneK
:
@
colinTgraham
, I am the queen of gimmicks, but as I teach more high level maths each year, it gets increasingly frustrating...#
mathchat
9:35 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Where there is "too much content", how do you counteract the type of shortterm approach coverage often demands? #
mathchat
9:36 pm
CarissaJuneK
:
@
colintgraham
because my students do not have basic logical reasoning skills #
mathchat
9:36 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
CarissaJuneK
It can sometimes be fruitful to explore why the gimmicks work, with higherlevel Ss. #
mathchat
9:37 pm
teachdig
:
@
ColinTGraham
I think Ss not comfort exploring because not done enough. Guiding early expl helps later... connects to unschooling #
mathchat
9:39 pm
CarissaJuneK
:
@
colintgraham
, agreed, and I think I should take the time to do it! #
mathchat
9:39 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Most people who've discussed this topic here suggested that longterm=number skills for life, but systems don't allow this easily. #
mathchat
9:41 pm
Cassyt
:
@
ColinTGraham
How about teaching for foundation knowledge  longterm number skills for life, "tests/systems" be damned? #
mathchat
9:41 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
teachdig
So longterm would be a shift towards exploration and shortterm is introducing the techniques of exploration? #
mathchat
9:43 pm
DCraig42
:
@
ColinTGraham
@
teachdig
giving up control to the students is tough for some to accept and manage #
mathchat
9:43 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Cassyt
That is the ideal which we all aspire to Cassy! The challenge is who decides on foundations, and what they are building #
mathchat
9:44 pm
frogphilp
:
@
DCraig42
Agree with that  yet most students 'feel' out of control in maths  they need to get the control back #
mathchat
9:44 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
DCraig42
There is also an element of support from outside the lesson too. Admin/colleagues/parents all 'have a say'... #
mathchat
9:44 pm
teachdig
:
@
DCraig42
@
ColinTGraham
That is so true. I know it even in myself. External demands don't make it easier either. #
mathchat
9:45 pm
teachdig
:
@
ColinTGraham
I like the way you put it. Yes to me that would be the ideal. #
mathchat
9:45 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
How do you handle timescales in your situation, Steve, where the students are bringing their own problems to work on? #
mathchat
9:45 pm
DCraig42
:
@
frogphilp
teacher needs to maintain control and yet allow exploration when possible. Small group instruction the only way #
mathchat
9:46 pm
Cassyt
:
@
ColinTGraham
Easy for me to sayand do, too, seeing as I focus on k6. #
mathchat
9:46 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
I do 7 weeks of studentled maths to focus on problems, then 7 weeks of teacherled maths to focus on skills #
mathchat
9:47 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Cassyt
Early years teaching also tends to have less 'labelled' topic areas, so the mathematics can be more integrated than later. #
mathchat
9:48 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
Within the 7week period, is it one problem per week or do some problems take longer/not get solved in studentled time #
mathchat
9:51 pm
teachdig
:
@
frogphilp
Interesting idea. What type of guidance do you give the students on their led time? Can they choose any topic? #
mathchat
9:51 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
Depends on the problem. Some not solved, some in less than 1/2 hour  there's always an interesting tangent to take #
mathchat
9:53 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Any further thoughts, in the final 10 minutes, about achieving a shortterm/longterm balance in lesson planning? #
mathchat
9:53 pm
DCraig42
:
@
teachdig
@
frogphilp
students receive choices how to explore but topic areas often picked for them esp the lower level learners #
mathchat
9:54 pm
colport
:
@
ColinTGraham
Just spotted #
mathchat
topic. About planning maths lessons?
9:55 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
colport
Basically planning for shortterm vs planning for longterm effect, Colin. #
mathchat
9:55 pm
DCraig42
:
The more motivation a child has to learn, the easier it is to give them more freedom in guided math formats #
mathchat
9:55 pm
frogphilp
:
@
teachdig
Depends on students. I've been working with high achievers recently... About start working with SEN  could be harder... #
mathchat
9:56 pm
colport
:
@
ColinTGraham
Ok, thanks for clarification #
mathchat
Weekly maths planning is one of my professional hates :( #
mybad
9:56 pm
carneysandoe
:
Students use math to solve mock crimes:
http://bit.ly/etpOpL
Is your school trying anything like this? #
mathchat
#
edchat
9:56 pm
frogphilp
:
@
DCraig42
Agree with that  Lower level students often taught to get to a point, rather than starting from where they're at. #
mathchat
9:57 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
colport
We can/should have a #
mathchat
about planning lessons, especially for those who don't like/enjoy it!
9:58 pm
colport
:
@
ColinTGraham
I'd be there for that #
mathchat
I love teaching the subject HATE planning it. Takes AAAGGGGEEESSSSS (yawn)
9:59 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
colport
Maybe #
ukedchat
and #
elemchat
would be interested in planning maths lessons for primary? We all meet on Thursdays... #
mathchat
9:59 pm
DCraig42
:
@
colport
@
ColinTGraham
yes these topics we discuss make math planning tough, you can't predict in advance always where you head #
mathchat
10:00 pm
ColinTGraham
:
I think, as usual, we have opened up a range of things to consider! Thanks for your contributions everyone. #
mathchat
10:01 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Don't forget to vote for the next topic:
http://mathschat.wikispaces.com/Current
+Poll #
mathchat
10:01 pm
teachdig
:
@
ColinTGraham
@
colport
That would be a great topic. #
mathchat
10:01 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Also, add some more ideas for future topics:
http://bit.ly/gqjSiX
#
mathchat
10:03 pm
teachdig
:
@
frogphilp
Would you offer choices if students do not come up with ideas on own? #
mathchat
10:03 pm
colport
:
@
teachdig
@
ColinTGraham
Hate it, hate it, hate it! Ideas 2 make maths planning a joy for primary teachers would be good #
mathchat
@
DCraig42
10:04 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Feel free to keep chatting, the archive from today's discussion will be online in about 20 minutes #
mathchat
10:04 pm
colport
:
@
ColinTGraham
Sorry to sabotage #
mathchat
with my issue of weekly planning for maths lessons #
mybad
10:06 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
colport
Not sabotage, it was an element of the topic today, anyway. Also, introduces topics for future discussions too... ;) #
mathchat
10:07 pm
dweksler
:
@
colport
One hopes sabotage may lead to creative problemsolving even using math skills #
mathchat
10:07 pm
teachdig
:
@
colport
@
ColinTGraham
@
DCraig42
I think this is where collaboration is key. I would love a job working with elem to plan math. #
mathchat
10:07 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
dweksler
Especially if you have to calculate the ideal trajectory of the sabot before you throw it in the machinery! #
mathchat
10:08 pm
dweksler
:
@
ColinTGraham
Or even what size sabots you wear ;) #
mathchat
10:10 pm
colport
:
@
teachdig
That would be amazing...but we're all stuck in our little bubbles. Collaboration would be good #
mathchat
10:13 pm
dweksler
:
@
colport
This and other online math communities are intended, IMHO, to make connections between those bubbles
http://bit.ly/uswFJ
#
mathchat
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Should mathematics lessons be planned and designed for longterm or shortterm effect?
As it happened on Monday, 17th January 2011, 20:30  22:00 GMT