Topic (follow-up to Friday, 17th December 2010):
How does ICT impact on the teaching and understanding of mathematics?
As it happened on Monday, 20th December 2010, 19:30 - 21:00 GMT
7:33 pm
ColinTGraham:
Hello everyone, and welcome to today's #mathchat
7:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
Our topic is: "How does ICT impact on the teaching and understanding of mathematics?" #mathchat
7:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
Who wants to start the ball rolling? #mathchat
7:39 pm
kevcreutz:
@ColinTGraham What does ICT mean? #mathchat (My google search led me to Information and Communication Technologies)
7:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
@kevcreutz Yes, that's it Information and Communication Technologies... the key is the C in the IT, maybe... #mathchat
7:41 pm
BE_PURE:
RT @ColinTGraham: Who wants to start the ball rolling? #mathchat
7:41 pm
ColinTGraham:
In the UK, ICT is often used to refer to the use of computers and other tech across/through the curriculum #mathchat
7:43 pm
Baggiepr:
#mathchat 7-11 drill aspect of mental maths enhanced by moodle quiz tool daily timed tests. Big progress & increased confidence
7:44 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham ICT and Maths mmm have found that flipvideo is good for developing Maths dialogue #mathchat
7:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Baggiepr Is it the self-test aspect or the ability of the computer to time and record very small improvements... or what? #mathchat
7:46 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs who is the dialogue with or what is it for? Is the video attractive for Ss who don't like writing...? #mathchat
7:48 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham try to get 2 to 3 stdts to discuss problem solving together - not easy but getting there #mathchat
7:48 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @PeteCHall: For guidance (NCTEM in the UK's report) look at http://bit.ly/dGClUb #mathchat
7:49 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @Baggiepr: timer over many weeks increases speed. Greater enthusiasm for doing work online. #mathchat (No S!! ;-) )
7:50 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @Baggiepr: #mathschat plus automated scores allow me to feed results to parents / kids regularly with set average #mathchat
7:51 pm
ColinTGraham:
So we have recording and automated aspects. What other ways do you feel ICT has changed maths lessons? #mathchat
7:53 pm
Janshs:
I also like recording stuff on whiteboard for future use/reflection #mathchat and MLE for collab docs & blogs (latter just trying)
7:54 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs Who is the collaboration with on the MLE? Stdts, colleagues or a mix? #mathchat
7:56 pm
daveinstpaul:
Online HW systems are great for instant feedback. A disadvantage is that they encourage superficial machine-checkable HW questions #mathchat
7:56 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham just between stdts at mo #mathchat
7:56 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Baggiepr Do the scores have a 'meaning' or relationship to attainment targets or is it just an 'improve yourself'...? #mathchat
7:57 pm
ColinTGraham:
@daveinstpaul What do you mean by HW here, Dave? Homework, hardware... #mathchat
7:58 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs Is access an issue at all? For example in-class vs outside, e-safety etc. #mathchat
7:59 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham it's all on school MLE at the mo #mathchat
8:00 pm
Sky2042:
Without proper oversight by a teacher, online HW systems are also easily procrastinated with... @daveinstpaul #mathchat
8:01 pm
Sky2042:
Which defeats the purpose of "instant feedback". @daveinstpaul #mathchat
8:02 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @Baggiepr: Link 6/10 questions with MM covered that week. A couple of questions from last week & always a ?n I haven't covered. #mathchat
8:04 pm
Baggiepr:
@ColinTGraham Thanks no wonder I am on my own! #mathchat
8:05 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042 Do you see the "instant" response as important for improving mathematical understanding or more for learning generally? #mathchat
8:08 pm
Baggiepr:
@Sky2042 #mathchat not sure what you mean by procrastinated with.. Do you mean they don't do it?
8:09 pm
ColinTGraham:
So any use of machines for testing purposes may be constrained by the ability of the machine to assess performance... #mathchat
8:09 pm
Janshs:
@daveinstpaul @ColinTGraham now hw another Big Issue, one for a future #Mathchat ?
8:09 pm
Sky2042:
"Instant response" is only useful when the student is led to the answer somewhat in the vein of the Socratic method. @colintgraham #mathchat
8:10 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs Yes, homework is certainly worth discussing as a separate/future topic! #Mathchat
8:10 pm
Sky2042:
So in that vein, it's appropriate in both respects. But an online system cannot teach the way a teacher can. @colintgraham #mathchat
8:11 pm
Baggiepr:
#mathchat lot of my pupils do mm tests lots of times until they get 10/10 cant do that easily on paper. Learning every time.
8:12 pm
Sky2042:
They put it off without firm deadlines set, and when semester end or a test comes around, "uh oh". @baggiepr #mathchat
8:12 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042 That is true, but there are things that machines can do just as/more effectively than teachers... #mathchat
8:13 pm
Sky2042:
I realize this is normal behavior for students in general, but online systems easily exaggerate the problem. @baggiepr #mathchat
8:14 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042's comment about Socratic dialogue and the timed aspects @Baggiepr mentioned suggest adventure/choice game approaches... #mathchat
8:15 pm
ColinTGraham:
Something not mentioned so far, which was raised last week, was the ability to link algebra and geometry - charts, graphs etc. #mathchat
8:15 pm
Baggiepr:
@Sky2042 I can see that would be a real issue older the students are. I just keep them in at break to do them (7-8yrs) #mathchat
8:15 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham I've yet to find one, as a student who has used at least 3 or 4 differing online systems by now. #mathchat
8:16 pm
Sky2042:
@Baggiepr That's not the purpose of break though, no? "Break" is when kids get to unfocus. Unless I'm reading that wrong? #mathchat
8:17 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042 So what kinds of system do you feel have helped you most as a student, particularly with mathematical concepts? #mathchat
8:17 pm
Baggiepr:
?@Sky2042: But an online system cannot teach the way a teacher can" #mathchat >totally agree good for drills and support materials
8:17 pm
Sky2042:
@Baggiepr But yes, that is a definite issue for the older ones. :^) #mathchat
8:18 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Baggiepr Same question I posed to Jan... do your Stdts have access to the system outside school too? #mathchat
8:19 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham Let me start by prefacing that I am an excellent book learner, an ability which lends itself to the "online" world. #mathchat
8:19 pm
ColinTGraham:
Sugata Mitra quoting Arthur C Clarke from his interview with him: "Teachers that can be replaced by machines, should be!" #mathchat
8:20 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham Perhaps let me attack the biggest problem point, and that's the lack of student-teacher feedback and questioning. #mathchat
8:20 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham The majority of online systems are setup in such a way that the student gets either a wrong or right answer, yes? #mathchat
8:21 pm
Baggiepr:
@Sky2042 #mathchat if they didn't use break time at home to do HW then can use break time at school. Kids love fairness everyone does work.
8:21 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042 So do you feel that teachers are over-using ICT and that it is reducing interaction between teachers and Stdts? #mathchat
8:21 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham However--too often--these systems are graded. Students don't want to be graded on learning _as they're learning_. #mathchat
8:22 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham This of course frustrates said student... #mathchat
8:23 pm
Baggiepr:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat yes vle very rarely used it in my class time as often more fun engaging collaborative things to do.
8:23 pm
Sky2042:
@Baggiepr However, I have issue with your statement, and that is that not all kids have the right background at home to do work. #mathchat
8:24 pm
Sky2042:
@Baggiepr But that's a tangential and much more general issue with the mass-school-system. :^) #mathchat
8:24 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042 So if the system provides only a grade, then that is not useful feedback for the learner as they learn... #mathchat
8:25 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham If the ICT component is used exclusively, definitely. I've been in a few courses like that. #mathchat
8:26 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042 Progress could also be shown by quicker times at completing activities though, as Phil @Baggiepr suggests with his stdts #mathchat
8:27 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham Programs usually provide feedback, but 2 often th answers are non-specific or not tailored for the students' quirks. #mathchat
8:28 pm
Baggiepr:
@Sky2042 #mathchat one child who doesn't have Internet at home offered paper but choose to do work in school. #diffdiscussion #anothertime
8:28 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham @Baggiepr I can see it being useful at the very young age for stuff like "math-minutes", faves of mine in my youth. #mathchat
8:30 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Sky2042 So part of developing is that feedback needs to be more personalized as you get further into study and ICT doesn't do it? #mathchat
8:30 pm
Baggiepr:
?@Sky2042: Prog provide feedback, but 2 often the answers are non-specific or not tailored for the students' quirks. #mathchat >agree
8:30 pm
Sky2042:
@ColinTGraham Exactly. Or at least, doesn't do it effectively. It tries, but for most people, especially my age, it fails. #mathchat
8:32 pm
Baggiepr:
@Sky2042 #mathchat soon as we get into prob solving or outside of mental maths online tests are rarely the solution.
8:33 pm
ColinTGraham:
Let's change direction a little, and ask "How would you like to see ICT used/done differently with in maths lessons?" #mathchat
8:34 pm
Sky2042:
@Baggiepr But they are being used as a soln. Most people learning calculus or fluid mechanics can't do it as #mentalmath, eh? :^) #mathchat
8:34 pm
Baggiepr:
#mathchat other key to online questions is writing them yourself with specific class needs/aims in mind
8:36 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham intrigued to know what use is made of mobile devices? #mathchat
8:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
I suspect most online systems are geared towards practice for key examinations which are largely marked by machines... #mathchat
8:37 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Today I answered some Ss' online surveys re: playground construction so creating data sets is a meaningful use of tech4math.
8:38 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Is there any need for crowd-sourcing during math instruction??
8:38 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs I think maybe underused, but I know @mthman did a cemetries project with GPS/mobile devices and a special needs group... #mathchat
8:38 pm
Baggiepr:
RT @Sky2042: @Baggiepr But they are being used as a soln. Most people learning calculus or fluid mechanics can't do it as #mentalmath, eh? :^) #mathchat
8:39 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Access to online data for comparison is also another use, but crowd-sourcing depends on the crowd! #mathchat
8:40 pm
Sky2042:
@MmeVeilleux Crowdsource by using your smart students (grade 5+?). They'll like the responsibility. :^) #mathchat
8:42 pm
JoonasD6:
@MmeVeilleux What sort of crowsourcing? What is needed? #mathchat
8:42 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs There have been some projects using QR codes, for example, I could see these relating to URLs for information, data,... #mathchat
8:42 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@Sky2042 #mathchat I too think they will like the responsibility of crowd-sourcing.
8:43 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Crowd-sourcing of approaches maybe, or for data collection, but the immediacy of response needs to be considered too #mathchat
8:44 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham now that is something I'd love to hear more about #mathchat
8:44 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@JoonasD6 #mathchat Crowd-sourcing for making classroom decisions, eg. money expenditures, recommended products, rdg materials..
8:45 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@JoonasD6 #mathchat Or researching for price-comparisons so that they are making good consumer choices for real expenditures.
8:48 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat I esp like the idea of Ss creating surveys re: real issues b/c then they can experience how framing Qs in dif ways biases outcomes
8:49 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Therefore they are doing critical thinking as they analyze data they collect b/c they ask whether results R valid.
8:50 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Hope it's not mean of me but unsuccessful surveys that give junk data can be a fantastic lrng experience
8:50 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs I think Tim @tj007 has been exploring QR codes and Julian Woods used them for his storytelling project #mathchat
8:50 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat This is perhaps a good lesson question (what do you think): How can U cr8 a biased survey that will give U the results U want?
8:51 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Mistakes are always (perhaps the only) learning experiences... but questions about sampling and reliability arise! #mathchat
8:53 pm
ColinTGraham:
Summarising so far: ICT for immediate response, automated testing where appropriate, access to more sources of information... #mathchat
8:53 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat "In my survey, 100% of respondents said I was perfect." (my mom being the only respondent) an attempt at math humour
8:54 pm
daveinstpaul:
@MmeVeilleux Great question! Also talk about how to avoid unconscious bias in designing a survey. #mathchat
8:54 pm
ColinTGraham:
Drawbacks - lack of personalized response, being 'tied in' to existing approaches/curricula, lack of imagination in application? #mathchat
8:55 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I would like to add that Ss can create content or quizzes not just get info or respond to Qs already posted.
8:55 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux It would be funnier if 90% of the respondents said you were perfect... ;-) #mathchat
8:56 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Is the creation of content/quizzes for themselves, their peers or for others? Which seems to be the most motivating? #mathchat
8:57 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I'd be happy if anyone told me I was perfect (even my mom - LOL)!!!
8:58 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs @MmeVeilleux Here is Tim's post on QR codes and HW http://bit.ly/hkhQuF #mathchat
8:59 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham @MmeVeilleux many thanks #mathchat
8:59 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat In my experience, peer response is valuable but blog comments from other countries rock!!
8:59 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham @Janshs Thx for the link re: QR codes. #mathchat
9:00 pm
ColinTGraham:
Well that's it for another time! Thanks for your responses everyone. There will be a chat on Thursday/Friday, then a break #mathchat
9:01 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat According to my survey of myself, I enjoy #mathchat 100% of the time.
9:01 pm
ColinTGraham:
Vote for the last topic of the year, which will be picked up as the first of 2011 too! http://bit.ly/c9KL7w#mathchat
9:01 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham Thanks 4 your facilitation!! #mathchat
9:01 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Joyeux Noël à tous et toutes!!! Merry Christmas to all!!
9:03 pm
ColinTGraham:
The archive will be online in about 20 minutes. If I don't see you on Thursday/Friday have a happy holiday break ;-) #mathchat