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#mathchat Wiki
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! guided tour
001 Differentiation
002 'Real' maths
003 Fractions
004 Manipulatives
005 Assessment
006 What technology?
007 Adult curriculum
008 Reflective Learners
009 Engagement
010 Class Time Use
011 Why I hate maths
012 Terminology
013 'Mathphobia'
014 The Nature of Maths
015 Show and Tell
016 Vertical Integration
017 Product to Process
018 Investigation Length
019 Preparation for Work
020 Success in Mathematics
021 Groupwork
022 Effective lessons
023 Impact of ICT
024 Mathematics Websites
028 Why under 16?
2010.07.15 Differentiation
2010.07.19 Differentiation (2)
2010.07.22 'Real' maths
2010.07.26 'Real' maths (2)
2010.07.29 Fractions
2010.08.02 Fractions (2)
2010.08.05 Manipulatives
2010.08.09 Manipulatives (2)
2010.08.12 Assessment
2010.08.16 Assessment (2)
2010.08.19 What tech?
2010.08.23 What tech? (2)
2010.08.26 Adult maths
2010.08.30 Adult maths (2)
2010.09.02 Reflective learner
2010.09.06 Reflective learner 2
2010.09.09 Engagement
2010.09.13 Engagement 2
2010.09.16 Class Time Use
2010.09.20 Class Time Use 2
2010.09.23 Why I hate maths
2010.09.27 Why I hate math 2
2010.09.30 Terminology
2010.10.04 Terminology 2
2010.10.07 'Mathphobia'
2010.10.11 'Mathphobia' (2)
2010.10.14 Nature of Maths
2010.10.18 Nature of Maths (2)
2010.10.21 Show and Tell
2010.10.25 Show and Tell (2)
2010.10.28 Vertical Integration
2010.11.01 Vertical Integratn 2
2010.11.04 Product to Process
2010.11.08 Product to Proc. 2
2010.11.11 Investigation length
2010.11.15 Investigation leng 2
2010.11.18 Prepn for work
2010.11.22 Prepn for work 2
2010.11.25 Success in Maths
2010.12.03 Groupwork
2010.12.06 Groupwork 2
2010.12.10 Effective lessons
2010.12.13 Effective Lesson 2
2010.12.17 Impact of ICT
2010.12.20 Impact of ICT 2
2010.12.24 Maths Websites
2011.01.03 Maths Website 2
2011.01.07 Ideal curriculum
2011.01.10 Ideal curriculum 2
2011.01.14 Short or longterm
2011.01.17 Short or longterm2
2011.01.21 Continuing PD
2011.01.24 Continuing PD 2
2011.01.28 Why under 16?
2011.01.31 Why under 16? (2)
2011.02.04 Which is more fun?
2011.02.11 Blended learning
2011.02.14 Blended learning 2
2011.02.18 Fast tracking
2011.02.21 Fast tracking (2)
2011.02.25 Misconceptions
2011.02.28 Misconceptions 2
2011.03.04 Good Reads
2011.03.07 Good Reads (2)
2011.03.11 How do I  fractions
2011.03.18 How do I  lang
2011.03.21 How do I  lang (2)
2011.03.25 How do I  curric
2011.03.28 How do I  curric 2
2011.04.01 How?  next topic
2011.04.04 How?  nxt topic 2
2011.04.08 How?  Geometry
2011.04.11 How?  Geom 2
2011.04.15 How?Investigation
2011.04.18 How?Investigatn 2
2011.04.22 How? Do vs. learn
2011.04.25 How?Do vs learn 2
2011.04.29 How?Dig deeper
2011.05.02 How?Dig deeper 2
2011.05.06 'Big Ideas'
2011.05.09 'Big Ideas' (2)
2011.05.13 High school skill
2011.05.16 High school skill 2
2011.05.20 Journals
2011.05.23 Journals (2)
2011.05.27 Studentdriven
2011.05.30 Studentdriven (2)
2011.06.03 How?  Maths play
2011.06.06 How?Maths play 2
2011.06.10 Deeper thinking
2011.06.13 Deeper thinking (2)
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed 2
2011.06.24 How?  Problems
2011.06.27 How?  Problems 2
2011.07.01 Holiday maths
2011.10.28 Extent of plans
2011.10.31 Extent of plans (2)
2011.11.04 Authentic is..?
2011.11.07 Authentic is..? (2)
Z_1 Thursday raw
Z_2 Monday raw
Z_consolidated
2010.11.25 Success in Maths
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Topic:
How do we measure success in mathematics, and in schools?
As it happened on
Thursday, 25th November 23:30  00:30 GMT
11:34 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Hello and welcome to today's #
mathchat
11:35 pm
ColinTGraham
:
If it's your first time, don't try to interact with everyone, but focus on one or two people instead. Don't forget the > #
mathchat
11:36 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Tonight's topic: "How do we measure success in mathematics, and in schools?" #
mathchat
11:39 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Let's start with a general question  What do you see as constituting success in anything? #
mathchat
11:39 pm
mccoyderek
:
#
mathchat
We have to develop a common understanding of standards and objectives; my fav ex is Alg 1 is different in so many states
11:40 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
mccoyderek
Do you think that some places are 'more successful' because they have lower standards, then, Derek? #
mathchat
11:40 pm
mccoyderek
:
#
mathchat
After we have common understanding of what to teach, Assessments will be a good easy step to take
11:41 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
Why can I see the #
mathchat
posts but I can't add to them & see the posts at the same time?
11:41 pm
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
I dont know about more successful bc I haven't seen that data, but standards are obviously different
11:42 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
Never mind. I figured it out!! #
mathchat
I can tweet and read the chat...
11:42 pm
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
Since they are different we are obviously measuring apples and grapefruit
11:42 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
MmeVeilleux
Great! #
mathchat
11:43 pm
dlziegler
:
#
mathchat
is a great place to hang out as well #
atle
11:43 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
mccoyderek
Are you equating success with assessment and grades or is there more to it? #
mathchat
11:44 pm
jenclevette
:
RT @
dlziegler
: #
mathchat
is a great place to hang out as well #
atle10
11:44 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
dlziegler
#
mathchat
is always a great place to hang out, Debbie! #
atle
11:45 pm
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
Great question! We have to have some accntblty, so I am talking some about stand tests.
11:45 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Derek @
mccoyderek
has suggested a common understanding might help. How do others view success? #
mathchat
11:46 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
#
mathchat
Success in math to me looks like drawing diagrams, using symbols (numbers & more) and persevering until you get to the solution.
11:47 pm
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
But I also am committed to building risk takers, student who can solve the non standard  shift away from computatn
11:47 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
MmeVeilleux
So you could say it's "becoming a mathematician", Ingrid? #
mathchat
11:47 pm
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
Grades, ach  all that will come  teaching new relevant skills will be success for teachers
11:48 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Let's generalize a little. How would you define "being successful" at/in anything? #
mathchat
11:48 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
@
mccoyderek
What does risktaking in math class look like for you? #
mathchat
11:48 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
@
ColinTGraham
You made my day AGAIN!!!! #
mathchat
LOL
11:49 pm
mccoyderek
:
@
MmeVeilleux
#
mathchat
Starts with project based learning, open ended assignments/exploration
11:49 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Not knowing the answer...? RT @
mccoyderek
: @
MmeVeilleux
#
mathchat
Starts with project based learning, open ended assignments/exploration
11:51 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
My formr stu asked today, why do we need numbers in math? (He's heavily into geometry now in Gr.8). #
mathchat
11:52 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
MmeVeilleux
You should see if he can define what numbers are... that was a tricky problem until about 120 years ago! #
mathchat
11:52 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
#
mathchat
It was nice that the student's mom shared w/me her long philosophical discussion w/her son on this topic.
11:53 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
@
ColinTGraham
Why was it tricky to define numbers? Who was then definitely able to do this? #
mathchat
11:53 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
mccoyderek
What do you mean when you talk about "relevant skills" Derek? #
mathchat
11:55 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
MmeVeilleux
Threeness is an easy concept for most to grasp, but three is not. The same with zero, for example... #
mathchat
11:56 pm
MmeVeilleux
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
Is this b/c ppl usually visualize discrete objects? Doesn't it come down to how U define one?
11:57 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
MmeVeilleux
Yes, definitions but also representations. Anyway, back to success in mathematics... ;) #
mathchat
ColinTGraham
:
In teaching, how aware are you of differences or similarities between being successful as a school vs. successful in subjects? #
mathchat
12:01 am
MmeVeilleux
:
#
mathchat
I think that the continuity of approach in a school is critical so that stu lrng can build over time.
12:02 am
MmeVeilleux
:
#
mathchat
In my last school we were quite systematic in using ten frames, encouraging multiple ways to represent lrng/based on grade.
12:03 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
MmeVeilleux
Do you see a continuity of approach in school, or do you see some subjects carrying more weight than others? #
mathchat
12:03 am
MmeVeilleux
:
#
mathchat
In that school we also tried to have a ballpark consensus on how many X children should use a Venn in Gr 1, which tools in Gr2...
12:05 am
MmeVeilleux
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
I see continuity in the math instruction and in quite a few subjects. Not science though.
12:06 am
MmeVeilleux
:
#
mathchat
There is a lot of informal mentoring at this school which makes it an exciting place to work and learn.
12:07 am
ColinTGraham
:
I wonder how students are viewing success. Do they have ways of building on achievements (= success to me!) or is it all 'grades'? #
mathchat
12:07 am
doctorjeff
:
Is #
mathchat
going tonite??
12:08 am
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
Relevant skills in a math class means moving away from only computation based curriculums. #
mathchat
12:08 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
doctorjeff
Yes, we're halfway through already! Join us! #
mathchat
12:09 am
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
I think of my time as math teacher, I taught a lot of computation, outofcontext math. I got good scores but..,
12:09 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
doctorjeff
Tonight's topic: "How do we measure success in mathematics, and in schools?" #
mathchat
12:09 am
doctorjeff
:
@
mccoyderek
@
ColinTGraham
what would you move to? #
mathchat
12:09 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
ok, for a bit #
mathchat
12:09 am
suburbanlion
:
Success in school #
math
means being able to calculate. Success in real world #
math
means creating accurate model. #
mathchat
12:09 am
mccoyderek
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
Moving forward, I know those arent relevant skills. Alg one in context looks different than from book
12:10 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
good  for one, math integration across the curriculum #
mathchat
12:11 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
mccoyderek
Computation is certainly one part, but students need to be able to know if answers are reasonable when using calculatr #
mathchat
12:11 am
mathtech
:
#
mathchat
A TED talk geared for success in math  make it relevant!
http://bit.ly/c1NkqE
12:11 am
doctorjeff
:
@
suburbanlion
success is a recognition by students, parents, and teachers that math is the language of nature #
mathchat
12:11 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
doctorjeff
Being able to work with numbers across the curriculum or removing mathematics as a subject? #
mathchat
12:13 am
mathtech
:
RT @
suburbanlion
: Success in school #
math
means being able to calculate. Success in real world #
math
means creating accurate model. #
mathchat
12:13 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
suburbanlion
I think many people see success in mathematics as being functionally numerate, Ryan. These are not the same! ;) #
mathchat
12:14 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
mathtech
Relevant to whom and for what purpose though? Passing a maths qualifcation at school? Becoming a problem solver? #
mathchat
12:14 am
doctorjeff
:
My view of Math Education: ban English in school except in English Class at HuffPost:
http://bit.ly/RrJ0z
#
mathchat
12:15 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
no, I'd not remove math as a subject but embed across the curriculum, and math class would support this #
mathchat
12:16 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
@
mathtech
math education as a means to foster critical thinking #
mathchat
12:16 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
doctorjeff
English (language), number (some mathematics too I hope) and ICT skills are needed across the board... #
mathchat
12:17 am
JRTPhysics
:
The key point here is that math is a language RT@
doctorjeff
ban English in school except in English Class?
http://bit.ly/RrJ0z
#
mathchat
12:17 am
ColinTGraham
:
Is success measurable? Is it defined clearly enough to be measurable? #
mathchat
12:18 am
mathtech
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
 Mathematical relevance  being able to solve life's problems or at least be curious enough to want to try.
12:18 am
doctorjeff
:
@
JRTPhysics
yes Ban english except in english class #
mathchat
12:19 am
doctorjeff
:
RT @
mathtech
: @
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
 Mathematical relevance  being able to solve life's problems or at least be curious enough to want to try.
12:19 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
mathtech
In our previous topic, last week, it was suggested there should be 2 qualifications: numeracy skills and mathematics... #
mathchat
12:21 am
mathtech
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
 Success is measured when you hear a student say 'I get it!'. Its not about what you teach, but how you teach.
12:22 am
MmeVeilleux
:
RT @
doctorjeff
: My view of Math Education: ban English in school except in English Class at HuffPost:
http://bit.ly/RrJ0z
#
mathchat
12:23 am
ColinTGraham
:
How often do we equate success with grades or assessment rather than the "Aha!" or "I did it!" moments? #
mathchat
12:23 am
doctorjeff
:
@
mathtech
@
ColinTGraham
and it's typically associated with a smile breaking across their face #
mathchat
12:24 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
or grading against the answer when we should be grading against the process. #
mathchat
12:24 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
doctorjeff
Or the 'bolshy' ones who start to question and probe beneath the surface of the 'school' requirements #
mathchat
12:25 am
JRTPhysics
:
@
doctorjeff
I can't teach physics without English, history, art and music... but most importantly the language of mathematics! #
mathchat
12:25 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
profprioleau
Communication of understanding is a sign of success for you then. #
mathchat
12:26 am
doctorjeff
:
@
JRTPhysics
so ... you're saying we should not treat English like we treat math? #
mathchat
12:26 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
JRTPhysics
So success in mathematics means or leads to greater success in other subjects? #
mathchat
12:27 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
@
profprioleau
actually the ability to create new knowledge is a sign of success 4 me. #
mathchat
12:27 am
doctorjeff
:
RT @
ColinTGraham
: @
JRTPhysics
So success in mathematics means or leads to greater success in other subjects? #
mathchat
12:27 am
JRTPhysics
:
This is why I don't understand block schedule. Math (and other world languages) meet only 3 times per week at my school. #
mathchat
12:28 am
ColinTGraham
:
Endemic by then! RT @
mathtech
: It's difficult to teach students it's not about marks, but about the learning  esp in college. #
mathchat
12:28 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
profprioleau
Because it is something they feel confident about doing? #
mathchat
12:28 am
doctorjeff
:
@
JRTPhysics
not sure I understand ... math is the ONLY world language #
mathchat
12:29 am
mathtech
:
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
Hard to make students understand it is about learning, when everywhere they learn success = good marks.
12:29 am
ColinTGraham
:
I'd say universal language! RT @
doctorjeff
: @
JRTPhysics
not sure I understand ... math is the ONLY world language #
mathchat
12:30 am
mathtech
:
@
mathtech
@
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
or is the reverse?
12:30 am
doctorjeff
:
RT @
mathtech
: @
ColinTGraham
#
mathchat
Hard to make students understand it is about learning, when everywhere they learn success = good marks.
12:30 am
JRTPhysics
:
@
ColinTGraham
numeracy is no guarantee of sci success, but so clearly a prerequisite. Graphing is so key to understanding physics #
mathchat
12:30 am
ColinTGraham
:
OK, final minute or so. Any closing thoughts about success in school vs. success in mathematics? #
mathchat
12:31 am
doctorjeff
:
RT @
ColinTGraham
: I'd say universal language! RT @
doctorjeff
: @
JRTPhysics
not sure I understand ... math is the ONLY world language #
mathchat
12:32 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
@
JRTPhysics
yes, I was not thinking BIG enough .. apologies (from an astrophysicist no less) #
mathchat
12:32 am
JRTPhysics
:
My collab with math teachers has had so much more impact (on students and myself) than collab with any other subjects. I need more #
mathchat
12:32 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
yes, at dawn of 21st century success in school REQUIRES success in math for majority of students. #
mathchat
12:33 am
ColinTGraham
:
For me, success is about overcoming a difficulty, knowing where you need to go and getting there, not just the end result. #
mathchat
12:34 am
ColinTGraham
:
OK thank you everyone. That's it for this Thursday's #
mathchat
From December we will be starting 30 minutes later on Thursday...
12:34 am
doctorjeff
:
@
ColinTGraham
success = asking the gift of a question + the art of navigating a path to an answer, and seeing something new? #
mathchat
12:35 am
ColinTGraham
:
Monday's #
mathchat
will be live from #
ukief10
next week. We will be revisiting today's topic, as usual, with some additions!
12:36 am
ColinTGraham
:
It's good to see some new people coming on board... spread the word :) And follow @
mathchat
to keep updated with news! #
mathchat
12:37 am
ColinTGraham
:
The archive will be online in about 30 minutes or so. Have a good day/night/afternoon :) #
mathchat
12:38 am
ColinTGraham
:
If you have time, please help with my survey for ukief10 "How have Twitter chats helped with CPD?"
http://bit.ly/dy7Ozc
RT please! #
mathchat
12:38 am
rosenbergerd
:
RT @
mathtech
: #
mathchat
A TED talk geared for success in math  make it relevant!
http://bit.ly/c1NkqE
12:40 am
mathchat
:
You can vote for the next #
mathchat
topic here:
http://bit.ly/c9KL7u
#
ukedchat
#
edchat
#
scichat
#
elemchat
#
ntchat
#
gtchat
12:41 am
Mollybmom
:
RT @
doctorjeff
: @
ColinTGraham
success = asking the gift of a question + the art of navigating a path to an answer, and seeing something new? #
mathchat
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As it happened on Thursday, 25th November 23:30  00:30 GMT