Topic: How do we measure success in mathematics, and in schools?
As it happened on Thursday, 25th November 23:30 - 00:30 GMT
11:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
Hello and welcome to today's #mathchat
11:35 pm
ColinTGraham:
If it's your first time, don't try to interact with everyone, but focus on one or two people instead. Don't forget the --> #mathchat
11:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
Tonight's topic: "How do we measure success in mathematics, and in schools?" #mathchat
11:39 pm
ColinTGraham:
Let's start with a general question - What do you see as constituting success in anything? #mathchat
11:39 pm
mccoyderek:
#mathchat We have to develop a common understanding of standards and objectives; my fav ex is Alg 1 is different in so many states
11:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mccoyderek Do you think that some places are 'more successful' because they have lower standards, then, Derek? #mathchat
11:40 pm
mccoyderek:
#mathchat After we have common understanding of what to teach, Assessments will be a good easy step to take
11:41 pm
MmeVeilleux:
Why can I see the #mathchat posts but I can't add to them & see the posts at the same time?
11:41 pm
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I dont know about more successful bc I haven't seen that data, but standards are obviously different
11:42 pm
MmeVeilleux:
Never mind. I figured it out!! #mathchat I can tweet and read the chat...
11:42 pm
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Since they are different we are obviously measuring apples and grapefruit
11:42 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Great! #mathchat
11:43 pm
dlziegler:
#mathchat is a great place to hang out as well #atle
11:43 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mccoyderek Are you equating success with assessment and grades or is there more to it? #mathchat
11:44 pm
jenclevette:
RT @dlziegler: #mathchat is a great place to hang out as well #atle10
11:44 pm
ColinTGraham:
@dlziegler #mathchat is always a great place to hang out, Debbie! #atle
11:45 pm
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Great question! We have to have some accntblty, so I am talking some about stand tests.
11:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
Derek @mccoyderek has suggested a common understanding might help. How do others view success? #mathchat
11:46 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Success in math to me looks like drawing diagrams, using symbols (numbers & more) and persevering until you get to the solution.
11:47 pm
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat But I also am committed to building risk takers, student who can solve the non standard - shift away from computatn
11:47 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux So you could say it's "becoming a mathematician", Ingrid? #mathchat
11:47 pm
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Grades, ach - all that will come - teaching new relevant skills will be success for teachers
11:48 pm
ColinTGraham:
Let's generalize a little. How would you define "being successful" at/in anything? #mathchat
11:48 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@mccoyderek What does risk-taking in math class look like for you? #mathchat
11:48 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham You made my day AGAIN!!!! #mathchat LOL
11:49 pm
mccoyderek:
@MmeVeilleux #mathchat Starts with project based learning, open ended assignments/exploration
11:49 pm
ColinTGraham:
Not knowing the answer...? RT @mccoyderek: @MmeVeilleux #mathchat Starts with project based learning, open ended assignments/exploration
11:51 pm
MmeVeilleux:
My formr stu asked today, why do we need numbers in math? (He's heavily into geometry now in Gr.8). #mathchat
11:52 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux You should see if he can define what numbers are... that was a tricky problem until about 120 years ago! #mathchat
11:52 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat It was nice that the student's mom shared w/me her long philosophical discussion w/her son on this topic.
11:53 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham Why was it tricky to define numbers? Who was then definitely able to do this? #mathchat
11:53 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mccoyderek What do you mean when you talk about "relevant skills" Derek? #mathchat
11:55 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Three-ness is an easy concept for most to grasp, but three is not. The same with zero, for example... #mathchat
11:56 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Is this b/c ppl usually visualize discrete objects? Doesn't it come down to how U define one?
11:57 pm
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Yes, definitions but also representations. Anyway, back to success in mathematics... ;-) #mathchat

ColinTGraham:
In teaching, how aware are you of differences or similarities between being successful as a school vs. successful in subjects? #mathchat
12:01 am
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat I think that the continuity of approach in a school is critical so that stu lrng can build over time.
12:02 am
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat In my last school we were quite systematic in using ten frames, encouraging multiple ways to represent lrng/based on grade.
12:03 am
ColinTGraham:
@MmeVeilleux Do you see a continuity of approach in school, or do you see some subjects carrying more weight than others? #mathchat
12:03 am
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat In that school we also tried to have a ballpark consensus on how many X children should use a Venn in Gr 1, which tools in Gr2...
12:05 am
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I see continuity in the math instruction and in quite a few subjects. Not science though.
12:06 am
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat There is a lot of informal mentoring at this school which makes it an exciting place to work and learn.
12:07 am
ColinTGraham:
I wonder how students are viewing success. Do they have ways of building on achievements (= success to me!) or is it all 'grades'? #mathchat
12:07 am
doctorjeff:
Is #mathchat going tonite??
12:08 am
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham Relevant skills in a math class means moving away from only computation based curriculums. #mathchat
12:08 am
ColinTGraham:
@doctorjeff Yes, we're halfway through already! Join us! #mathchat
12:09 am
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I think of my time as math teacher, I taught a lot of computation, out-of-context math. I got good scores but..,
12:09 am
ColinTGraham:
@doctorjeff Tonight's topic: "How do we measure success in mathematics, and in schools?" #mathchat
12:09 am
doctorjeff:
@mccoyderek @ColinTGraham what would you move to? #mathchat
12:09 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham ok, for a bit #mathchat
12:09 am
suburbanlion:
Success in school #math means being able to calculate. Success in real world #math means creating accurate model. #mathchat
12:09 am
mccoyderek:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Moving forward, I know those arent relevant skills. Alg one in context looks different than from book
12:10 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham good | for one, math integration across the curriculum #mathchat
12:11 am
ColinTGraham:
@mccoyderek Computation is certainly one part, but students need to be able to know if answers are reasonable when using calculatr #mathchat
12:11 am
mathtech:
#mathchat A TED talk geared for success in math - make it relevant! http://bit.ly/c1NkqE
12:11 am
doctorjeff:
@suburbanlion success is a recognition by students, parents, and teachers that math is the language of nature #mathchat
12:11 am
ColinTGraham:
@doctorjeff Being able to work with numbers across the curriculum or removing mathematics as a subject? #mathchat
12:13 am
mathtech:
RT @suburbanlion: Success in school #math means being able to calculate. Success in real world #math means creating accurate model. #mathchat
12:13 am
ColinTGraham:
@suburbanlion I think many people see success in mathematics as being functionally numerate, Ryan. These are not the same! ;-) #mathchat
12:14 am
ColinTGraham:
@mathtech Relevant to whom and for what purpose though? Passing a maths qualifcation at school? Becoming a problem solver? #mathchat
12:14 am
doctorjeff:
My view of Math Education: ban English in school except in English Class at HuffPost:http://bit.ly/RrJ0z #mathchat
12:15 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham no, I'd not remove math as a subject but embed across the curriculum, and math class would support this #mathchat
12:16 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham @mathtech math education as a means to foster critical thinking #mathchat
12:16 am
ColinTGraham:
@doctorjeff English (language), number (some mathematics too I hope) and ICT skills are needed across the board... #mathchat
12:17 am
JRTPhysics:
The key point here is that math is a language RT@doctorjeff ban English in school except in English Class? http://bit.ly/RrJ0z #mathchat
12:17 am
ColinTGraham:
Is success measurable? Is it defined clearly enough to be measurable? #mathchat
12:18 am
mathtech:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat - Mathematical relevance - being able to solve life's problems or at least be curious enough to want to try.
12:18 am
doctorjeff:
@JRTPhysics yes Ban english except in english class #mathchat
12:19 am
doctorjeff:
RT @mathtech: @ColinTGraham #mathchat - Mathematical relevance - being able to solve life's problems or at least be curious enough to want to try.
12:19 am
ColinTGraham:
@mathtech In our previous topic, last week, it was suggested there should be 2 qualifications: numeracy skills and mathematics... #mathchat
12:21 am
mathtech:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat - Success is measured when you hear a student say 'I get it!'. Its not about what you teach, but how you teach.
12:22 am
MmeVeilleux:
RT @doctorjeff: My view of Math Education: ban English in school except in English Class at HuffPost: http://bit.ly/RrJ0z #mathchat
12:23 am
ColinTGraham:
How often do we equate success with grades or assessment rather than the "Aha!" or "I did it!" moments? #mathchat
12:23 am
doctorjeff:
@mathtech @ColinTGraham and it's typically associated with a smile breaking across their face #mathchat
12:24 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham or grading against the answer when we should be grading against the process. #mathchat
12:24 am
ColinTGraham:
@doctorjeff Or the 'bolshy' ones who start to question and probe beneath the surface of the 'school' requirements #mathchat
12:25 am
JRTPhysics:
@doctorjeff I can't teach physics without English, history, art and music... but most importantly the language of mathematics! #mathchat
12:25 am
ColinTGraham:
@profprioleau Communication of understanding is a sign of success for you then. #mathchat
12:26 am
doctorjeff:
@JRTPhysics so ... you're saying we should not treat English like we treat math? #mathchat
12:26 am
ColinTGraham:
@JRTPhysics So success in mathematics means or leads to greater success in other subjects? #mathchat
12:27 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham @profprioleau actually the ability to create new knowledge is a sign of success 4 me. #mathchat
12:27 am
doctorjeff:
RT @ColinTGraham: @JRTPhysics So success in mathematics means or leads to greater success in other subjects? #mathchat
12:27 am
JRTPhysics:
This is why I don't understand block schedule. Math (and other world languages) meet only 3 times per week at my school. #mathchat
12:28 am
ColinTGraham:
Endemic by then! RT @mathtech: It's difficult to teach students it's not about marks, but about the learning - esp in college. #mathchat
12:28 am
ColinTGraham:
@profprioleau Because it is something they feel confident about doing? #mathchat
12:28 am
doctorjeff:
@JRTPhysics not sure I understand ... math is the ONLY world language #mathchat
12:29 am
mathtech:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Hard to make students understand it is about learning, when everywhere they learn success = good marks.
12:29 am
ColinTGraham:
I'd say universal language! RT @doctorjeff: @JRTPhysics not sure I understand ... math is the ONLY world language #mathchat
12:30 am
mathtech:
@mathtech @ColinTGraham #mathchat or is the reverse?
12:30 am
doctorjeff:
RT @mathtech: @ColinTGraham #mathchat Hard to make students understand it is about learning, when everywhere they learn success = good marks.
12:30 am
JRTPhysics:
@ColinTGraham numeracy is no guarantee of sci success, but so clearly a prerequisite. Graphing is so key to understanding physics #mathchat
12:30 am
ColinTGraham:
OK, final minute or so. Any closing thoughts about success in school vs. success in mathematics? #mathchat
12:31 am
doctorjeff:
RT @ColinTGraham: I'd say universal language! RT @doctorjeff: @JRTPhysics not sure I understand ... math is the ONLY world language #mathchat
12:32 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham @JRTPhysics yes, I was not thinking BIG enough .. apologies (from an astrophysicist no less) #mathchat
12:32 am
JRTPhysics:
My collab with math teachers has had so much more impact (on students and myself) than collab with any other subjects. I need more #mathchat
12:32 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham yes, at dawn of 21st century success in school REQUIRES success in math for majority of students. #mathchat
12:33 am
ColinTGraham:
For me, success is about overcoming a difficulty, knowing where you need to go and getting there, not just the end result. #mathchat
12:34 am
ColinTGraham:
OK thank you everyone. That's it for this Thursday's #mathchat From December we will be starting 30 minutes later on Thursday...
12:34 am
doctorjeff:
@ColinTGraham success = asking the gift of a question + the art of navigating a path to an answer, and seeing something new? #mathchat
12:35 am
ColinTGraham:
Monday's #mathchat will be live from #ukief10 next week. We will be revisiting today's topic, as usual, with some additions!
12:36 am
ColinTGraham:
It's good to see some new people coming on board... spread the word :-) And follow @mathchat to keep updated with news! #mathchat
12:37 am
ColinTGraham:
The archive will be online in about 30 minutes or so. Have a good day/night/afternoon :-) #mathchat
12:38 am
ColinTGraham:
If you have time, please help with my survey for ukief10 "How have Twitter chats helped with CPD?"http://bit.ly/dy7Ozc RT please! #mathchat
12:38 am
rosenbergerd:
RT @mathtech: #mathchat A TED talk geared for success in math - make it relevant!http://bit.ly/c1NkqE
12:40 am
mathchat:
You can vote for the next #mathchat topic here: http://bit.ly/c9KL7u #ukedchat #edchat #scichat#elemchat #ntchat #gtchat
12:41 am
Mollybmom:
RT @doctorjeff: @ColinTGraham success = asking the gift of a question + the art of navigating a path to an answer, and seeing something new? #mathchat