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#mathchat Wiki
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! guided tour
001 Differentiation
002 'Real' maths
003 Fractions
004 Manipulatives
005 Assessment
006 What technology?
007 Adult curriculum
008 Reflective Learners
009 Engagement
010 Class Time Use
011 Why I hate maths
012 Terminology
013 'Mathphobia'
014 The Nature of Maths
015 Show and Tell
016 Vertical Integration
017 Product to Process
018 Investigation Length
019 Preparation for Work
020 Success in Mathematics
021 Groupwork
022 Effective lessons
023 Impact of ICT
024 Mathematics Websites
028 Why under 16?
2010.07.15 Differentiation
2010.07.19 Differentiation (2)
2010.07.22 'Real' maths
2010.07.26 'Real' maths (2)
2010.07.29 Fractions
2010.08.02 Fractions (2)
2010.08.05 Manipulatives
2010.08.09 Manipulatives (2)
2010.08.12 Assessment
2010.08.16 Assessment (2)
2010.08.19 What tech?
2010.08.23 What tech? (2)
2010.08.26 Adult maths
2010.08.30 Adult maths (2)
2010.09.02 Reflective learner
2010.09.06 Reflective learner 2
2010.09.09 Engagement
2010.09.13 Engagement 2
2010.09.16 Class Time Use
2010.09.20 Class Time Use 2
2010.09.23 Why I hate maths
2010.09.27 Why I hate math 2
2010.09.30 Terminology
2010.10.04 Terminology 2
2010.10.07 'Mathphobia'
2010.10.11 'Mathphobia' (2)
2010.10.14 Nature of Maths
2010.10.18 Nature of Maths (2)
2010.10.21 Show and Tell
2010.10.25 Show and Tell (2)
2010.10.28 Vertical Integration
2010.11.01 Vertical Integratn 2
2010.11.04 Product to Process
2010.11.08 Product to Proc. 2
2010.11.11 Investigation length
2010.11.15 Investigation leng 2
2010.11.18 Prepn for work
2010.11.22 Prepn for work 2
2010.11.25 Success in Maths
2010.12.03 Groupwork
2010.12.06 Groupwork 2
2010.12.10 Effective lessons
2010.12.13 Effective Lesson 2
2010.12.17 Impact of ICT
2010.12.20 Impact of ICT 2
2010.12.24 Maths Websites
2011.01.03 Maths Website 2
2011.01.07 Ideal curriculum
2011.01.10 Ideal curriculum 2
2011.01.14 Short or longterm
2011.01.17 Short or longterm2
2011.01.21 Continuing PD
2011.01.24 Continuing PD 2
2011.01.28 Why under 16?
2011.01.31 Why under 16? (2)
2011.02.04 Which is more fun?
2011.02.11 Blended learning
2011.02.14 Blended learning 2
2011.02.18 Fast tracking
2011.02.21 Fast tracking (2)
2011.02.25 Misconceptions
2011.02.28 Misconceptions 2
2011.03.04 Good Reads
2011.03.07 Good Reads (2)
2011.03.11 How do I  fractions
2011.03.18 How do I  lang
2011.03.21 How do I  lang (2)
2011.03.25 How do I  curric
2011.03.28 How do I  curric 2
2011.04.01 How?  next topic
2011.04.04 How?  nxt topic 2
2011.04.08 How?  Geometry
2011.04.11 How?  Geom 2
2011.04.15 How?Investigation
2011.04.18 How?Investigatn 2
2011.04.22 How? Do vs. learn
2011.04.25 How?Do vs learn 2
2011.04.29 How?Dig deeper
2011.05.02 How?Dig deeper 2
2011.05.06 'Big Ideas'
2011.05.09 'Big Ideas' (2)
2011.05.13 High school skill
2011.05.16 High school skill 2
2011.05.20 Journals
2011.05.23 Journals (2)
2011.05.27 Studentdriven
2011.05.30 Studentdriven (2)
2011.06.03 How?  Maths play
2011.06.06 How?Maths play 2
2011.06.10 Deeper thinking
2011.06.13 Deeper thinking (2)
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed 2
2011.06.24 How?  Problems
2011.06.27 How?  Problems 2
2011.07.01 Holiday maths
2011.10.28 Extent of plans
2011.10.31 Extent of plans (2)
2011.11.04 Authentic is..?
2011.11.07 Authentic is..? (2)
Z_1 Thursday raw
Z_2 Monday raw
Z_consolidated
2010.11.11 Investigation length
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Topic:
Which works better  longterm projects and investigations or ones which can be completed in one or two lessons?
As it happened on Thursday, 11th November 23:30  00:30 GMT
11:30 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Hello #
mathchat
if you are reading this (a scheduled tweet), it means I'm going to be a bit late, so start without me!
11:30 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Tonight's topic: Which works better  longterm projects and investigations or ones which can be done in one or two lessons? #
mathchat
11:31 pm
rodaniel
:
Prolonged exposure, revisiting can have diff impact than short deep exploration #
mathchat
11:41 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Hello, all, not a lot of activity so far! #
mathchat
11:43 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Let's start with gut feelings  do longterm projects or short one/two lesson investigations work better? #
mathchat
11:46 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Noone chatting tonight? #
mathchat
11:49 pm
cybraryman1
:
Students can get overwhelmed with a long term project and stay better focused with short term ones. #
mathchat
11:49 pm
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
I thought we started at 5:30 my time....45 minutes from now. #
mathchat
11:50 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
No, Cathy always 23:30 GMT! Daylight savings changes things! #
mathchat
11:51 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
cybraryman1
What could be done towards making the longterm project less overwhelming, Jerry? Is it lack of guidance? #
mathchat
11:51 pm
cybraryman1
:
@
ColinTGraham
Students get caught up with work in other subject areas and get too overwhelmed to really concentrate on one subject #
mathchat
11:53 pm
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
You don't adjust your clocks? #
mathchat
11:54 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
cybraryman1
If the teacher broke a longterm project into smaller steps, would that help or is it important for students to do it #
mathchat
11:54 pm
ccampbel14
:
I know I haven't had enough checkins with students along the way & then they get behind. #
mathchat
11:54 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
Yes, we went back to GMT on 31st October, so it's earlier for me too! #
mathchat
11:55 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
This suggests that you give the project to the students and let them get on with it... inside or outside class? #
mathchat
11:58 pm
daveinstpaul
:
What's an example of a longterm project in math class? #
mathchat
11:59 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
daveinstpaul
Well, that's a good question, Dave! I wonder how many of us actually do longterm projects... Maybe build something? #
mathchat
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
Usually a combination of inclass work with some athome time if they don't get enough accomplished inclass. #
mathchat
12:01 am
ccampbel14
:
@
daveinstpaul
An e.g. for me would be a survey that students conducted about a specific topic of their choice. #
mathchat
12:01 am
ccampbel14
:
Usually I give the project at the beginning of a unit so Ss can work on it over time and it is a culminating activity. #
mathchat
12:01 am
cybraryman1
:
It is good to have some inclass work so teacher can judge progress & give suggestions #
mathchat
12:02 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
cybraryman1
I think presentation of findings, discussion of next steps, etc. would be usefully done in class #
mathchat
12:03 am
Scorgo
:
I sat as a judge last June for some FANTASTIC projects at the gr 11 level incorporating big ideas and real world. So so good. #
mathchat
12:04 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
Scorgo
I certainly think that 14+ are more capable/interested in working on longer projects. Were these maths projects or ...? #
mathchat
12:05 am
ccampbel14
:
I had trouble ensuring that my students were on the right track. Need very structured checkstops for this. #
mathchat
12:06 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
So more of a teacherled task? What would have happened if you had let them go off track? #
mathchat
12:08 am
cybraryman1
:
RT @
ccampbel14
: I had trouble ensuring that my students were on the right track. Need very structured checkstops for this. #
mathchat
12:08 am
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
Not sure. Worried about 'Practice makes permanent' & if they were making habits of math thinking that was incorrect. #
mathchat
12:08 am
Scorgo
:
The projects had a list of criteria with the intent if showing & applying conceptual understanding. #
mathchat
12:09 am
Scorgo
:
Kids dud everything Fr math in their sports to baking shows to farming to international spies. #
mathchat
12:09 am
ccampbel14
:
Some of my students thrived on longterm projects. Others were completely overwhelmed. Anyone have a similar reaction? #
mathchat
12:09 am
ccampbel14
:
@
Scorgo
Nice connection to things they valued and enjoyed. #
mathchat
12:10 am
Scorgo
:
They were entertaining but u quickly saw who conceptually understood the math & could apply & who only procedurally understood. #
mathchat
12:11 am
ColinTGraham
:
What do you see as the purpose of the investigations? In the UK, many Ss will see it as practice for the coursework 'exam' at 16. #
mathchat
12:11 am
ccampbel14
:
@
Scorgo
Were the students involved in any self or peerevaluation? Found I spent tons of time to assess & evaluate their work. #
mathchat
12:11 am
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
I think here it is like a final 'transfer' task where they put many math skills together to show what they know. #
mathchat
12:13 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
Part of the requirement to communicate mathematically...? Do you feel the thinking part gets submerged in this? #
mathchat
12:14 am
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
Yes, absolutely to communicate what they know. Not sure what you mean by 'thinking gets submerged'. #
mathchat
12:16 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
You said earlier that you were worried about "habits of math thinking that were incorrect" If it's teacherled, tho..? #
mathchat
12:17 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
Scorgo
Did there tend to be more procedural than conceptual mathematicians, or were you surprised? #
mathchat
12:19 am
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
Yes, it is teacherled but if students weren't productive in class didn't always have chance 2 see what they did. #
mathchat
12:20 am
ccampbel14
:
I guess there is a concern, as well, if they did some work at home, who actually did the work. Parents? Older siblings? #
mathchat
12:21 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
That can be tested/assessed by judicious questioning, but takes time too! #
mathchat
12:21 am
ccampbel14
:
Think that the purpose of inquirybased projects is to mirror life. Rarely do we do 1 question at a time. Life is more complex. #
mathchat
12:24 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
One issue is that mathematical projects, in the longterm, will usually be better done as something crosscurricular! #
mathchat
12:26 am
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
Makes sense. Do you mean that the math component would be evaluated by math teacher, communication by Eng teacher? #
mathchat
12:28 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
Ideally, yes. I think other subjects may be more conducive to something longterm e.g. mapping in Geography... #
mathchat
12:29 am
ccampbel14
:
I have thought of many projects that I thought kids would love but the topics aren't 'officially' covered in our curriculum. #
mathchat
12:29 am
ColinTGraham
:
To go back to @
daveinstpaul
's earlier point, it's quite difficult to identify a longterm project which would be 'purely' maths! #
mathchat
12:30 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
Maybe we are still too fearful of departing from the curriculum... being creative within it should be something we do #
mathchat
12:31 am
ccampbel14
:
I think certain topics are more conducive to projects  geometry & measurement, statistics & probability, for example. #
mathchat
12:32 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
Even thinking about topics, as such, may be too restrictive... the key is the inquiry/exploration, surely... #
mathchat
12:34 am
ColinTGraham
:
Perhaps we need to have a separate discussion about designing effective inquirybased projects in mathematics! #
mathchat
12:34 am
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
Think being creative within the curr. is key. I don't say limit students but assessment must be at grade level only. #
mathchat
12:35 am
ColinTGraham
:
Anyway, thanks for the contributions everyone. The vote for next week's topic is up and running:
http://bit.ly/c9KL7s
#
mathchat
12:36 am
ColinTGraham
:
Don't forget the time may have changed if you have recently stopped daylight saving! #
mathchat
12:36 am
ccampbel14
:
@
ColinTGraham
Thanks for moderating again. Think looking at what makes good inquirybased projects in math would be interesting. #
mathchat
12:37 am
ccampbel14
:
I know that I have tried to create math projects but they really would be considered 'pseudocontexts'. #
mathchat
12:38 am
ColinTGraham
:
@
ccampbel14
I think it comes from having topics that need to be 'covered', rather than doing something and seeing what comes out! #
mathchat
12:39 am
ColinTGraham
:
The archive will be online in about 30 minutes #
mathchat
See you next time...
12:45 am
Scorgo
:
@
ccampbel14
Stdnt selfeval using a var of the judging sheet we had. when a team finished, they would peer eval the next grp #
mathchat
12:48 am
Scorgo
:
@
ColinTGraham
I was actually surprised at the amt of conceptual understanding displayed. #
mathchat
12:49 am
Scorgo
:
@
ColinTGraham
some there seemed to be a lot of procedural bc they could only explain how to get an answer  even when questioned. #
mathchat
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As it happened on Thursday, 11th November 23:30  00:30 GMT