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! guided tour
001 Differentiation
002 'Real' maths
003 Fractions
004 Manipulatives
005 Assessment
006 What technology?
007 Adult curriculum
008 Reflective Learners
009 Engagement
010 Class Time Use
011 Why I hate maths
012 Terminology
013 'Mathphobia'
014 The Nature of Maths
015 Show and Tell
016 Vertical Integration
017 Product to Process
018 Investigation Length
019 Preparation for Work
020 Success in Mathematics
021 Groupwork
022 Effective lessons
023 Impact of ICT
024 Mathematics Websites
028 Why under 16?
2010.07.15 Differentiation
2010.07.19 Differentiation (2)
2010.07.22 'Real' maths
2010.07.26 'Real' maths (2)
2010.07.29 Fractions
2010.08.02 Fractions (2)
2010.08.05 Manipulatives
2010.08.09 Manipulatives (2)
2010.08.12 Assessment
2010.08.16 Assessment (2)
2010.08.19 What tech?
2010.08.23 What tech? (2)
2010.08.26 Adult maths
2010.08.30 Adult maths (2)
2010.09.02 Reflective learner
2010.09.06 Reflective learner 2
2010.09.09 Engagement
2010.09.13 Engagement 2
2010.09.16 Class Time Use
2010.09.20 Class Time Use 2
2010.09.23 Why I hate maths
2010.09.27 Why I hate math 2
2010.09.30 Terminology
2010.10.04 Terminology 2
2010.10.07 'Mathphobia'
2010.10.11 'Mathphobia' (2)
2010.10.14 Nature of Maths
2010.10.18 Nature of Maths (2)
2010.10.21 Show and Tell
2010.10.25 Show and Tell (2)
2010.10.28 Vertical Integration
2010.11.01 Vertical Integratn 2
2010.11.04 Product to Process
2010.11.08 Product to Proc. 2
2010.11.11 Investigation length
2010.11.15 Investigation leng 2
2010.11.18 Prepn for work
2010.11.22 Prepn for work 2
2010.11.25 Success in Maths
2010.12.03 Groupwork
2010.12.06 Groupwork 2
2010.12.10 Effective lessons
2010.12.13 Effective Lesson 2
2010.12.17 Impact of ICT
2010.12.20 Impact of ICT 2
2010.12.24 Maths Websites
2011.01.03 Maths Website 2
2011.01.07 Ideal curriculum
2011.01.10 Ideal curriculum 2
2011.01.14 Short or longterm
2011.01.17 Short or longterm2
2011.01.21 Continuing PD
2011.01.24 Continuing PD 2
2011.01.28 Why under 16?
2011.01.31 Why under 16? (2)
2011.02.04 Which is more fun?
2011.02.11 Blended learning
2011.02.14 Blended learning 2
2011.02.18 Fast tracking
2011.02.21 Fast tracking (2)
2011.02.25 Misconceptions
2011.02.28 Misconceptions 2
2011.03.04 Good Reads
2011.03.07 Good Reads (2)
2011.03.11 How do I  fractions
2011.03.18 How do I  lang
2011.03.21 How do I  lang (2)
2011.03.25 How do I  curric
2011.03.28 How do I  curric 2
2011.04.01 How?  next topic
2011.04.04 How?  nxt topic 2
2011.04.08 How?  Geometry
2011.04.11 How?  Geom 2
2011.04.15 How?Investigation
2011.04.18 How?Investigatn 2
2011.04.22 How? Do vs. learn
2011.04.25 How?Do vs learn 2
2011.04.29 How?Dig deeper
2011.05.02 How?Dig deeper 2
2011.05.06 'Big Ideas'
2011.05.09 'Big Ideas' (2)
2011.05.13 High school skill
2011.05.16 High school skill 2
2011.05.20 Journals
2011.05.23 Journals (2)
2011.05.27 Studentdriven
2011.05.30 Studentdriven (2)
2011.06.03 How?  Maths play
2011.06.06 How?Maths play 2
2011.06.10 Deeper thinking
2011.06.13 Deeper thinking (2)
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed
2011.06.17 How?  Disjointed 2
2011.06.24 How?  Problems
2011.06.27 How?  Problems 2
2011.07.01 Holiday maths
2011.10.28 Extent of plans
2011.10.31 Extent of plans (2)
2011.11.04 Authentic is..?
2011.11.07 Authentic is..? (2)
Z_1 Thursday raw
Z_2 Monday raw
Z_consolidated
2010.10.04 Terminology 2
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Topic (followup to Thursday, 30th September 2010):
What terminology should we use and when  'proper' mathematical terms or everyday language?
As it happened on
Monday, 4th October 2010, 19:30  21:00 GMT
7:33 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Hello and welcome to Monday's #
mathchat
7:34 pm
ColinTGraham
:
If it's your first time, welcome. Try to interact with one or two people if things move too fast for you and don't forget the > #
mathchat
7:34 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Tonight's topic is: "What terminology should we use and when  'proper' mathematical terms or everyday language?" #
mathchat
7:35 pm
Tina_Barr
:
@
ColinTGraham
what time is #
mathchat
?
7:36 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
I think it's good to try to use both (e.g. box and cuboid) so that the language is used and understood #
mathchat
7:36 pm
cybraryman1
:
Are you ready for 101010 ? #
mathchat
7:36 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Tina_Barr
It's starting now! #
mathchat
7:36 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Does the introduction of terminology come before, with or after the concept? #
mathchat
7:37 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
cybraryman1
Yes, and 20/10/2010 ! #
mathchat
7:38 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
You would have box, cuboid and cube... how do you differentiate  do you define or the students? #
mathchat
7:40 pm
frogphilp
:
On 091610 I asked the children which number was the oddone out. They said 9. I didn't mean that kind of oddso what did I mean? #
mathchat
7:40 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
did gr8 expt today videod me & 2 students (me questioning/confirming/reaffirming) they defining  others recording #
mathchat
7:41 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
so they define I guess but with me addressing any misconceptions #
mathchat
7:41 pm
icecolbeveridge
:
I see maths as a foreign language. "It's a box... in maths it's known as a cuboid." #
mathchat
7:42 pm
Tina_Barr
:
Exploring #
mathchat
for the next little bit!
7:42 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
It could be 09 because it was written with a leading zero though... #
mathchat
7:43 pm
Janshs
:
@
icecolbeveridge
I once worked in a school where Maths & MFL were in same faculty #
mathchat
7:43 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
icecolbeveridge
Yes, I have used this approach too, in ESL teaching: ball, globe, sphere #
mathchat
7:44 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
Will you go back and review the video with the Ss later to refine? #
mathchat
7:45 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
yes, and we hope to make it a revision tool too #
mathchat
7:45 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
icecolbeveridge
@
janshs
my main research interest is in the impact of language used vs. maths learned, so it's right up my alley! #
mathchat
7:46 pm
Tina_Barr
:
RT @
mathheadinc
: @
mrsjpearson
@
colleenk
has many fun games here: www.mathplayground.com #
mathchat
#
edchat
#
education
#
elemchat
7:46 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
have you come across the dea of dialogic teaching (Alexander)? #
mathchat
7:46 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Back to my earlier question: Does the introduction of terminology come before, with or after the concept? #
mathchat
7:48 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
Yes I've sometimes heard it referred to as Socratic teaching too. Tricky to do with more than a group of 3 or 4, I think #
mathchat
7:48 pm
Tina_Barr
:
@
ColinTGraham
I think before....having an understanding of terms allows for a deeper understanding of the concept #
mathchat
7:49 pm
Tina_Barr
:
RT @
kellydupas
: Great site with lots of Pumpkin related math activities!
http://bit.ly/bBlvz9
#
edchat
#
elemchat
#
mathchat
7:49 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Adjustably or always...? eg sometimes b4, sometimes b4+with... RT @
EduVulture
: @
ColinTGraham
possibly all three? #
mathchat
7:50 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Tina_Barr
Does the understanding come from having a word to describe it though or from finding something and trying to label it? #
mathchat
7:50 pm
ColinTGraham
:
RT @
EduVulture
: I tend to seek solutions to the questions first, so I introduce the tech at the right time #
mathchat
7:50 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
agreed  I am going to try some group work with this idea #
mathchat
7:51 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Don't forget to use the hashtag! #
mathchat
7:52 pm
frogphilp
:
technical words are specific to maths (eg triangle); specialist words are general words used in a maths context (eg table) #
mathchat
7:53 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
icecolbeveridge
Do you consciously use any language teaching methodology when you are teaching maths? #
mathchat
7:54 pm
Tina_Barr
:
@
ColinTGraham
I suppose it could be a case by case basis. Depends on age level too. Younger may do better w/ the latter. #
mathchat
7:54 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
We also need to remember jargon as well and that technical words may be used differently: eg. trapezoid/trapezium #
mathchat
7:55 pm
frogphilp
:
Role of primary school teacher is to inculcate a positive attitude to language of maths and skills for engaging in maths dialogue. #
mathchat
7:56 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Tina_Barr
My general impression is that younger children always seem interested in knowing the 'big' words. #
mathchat
7:56 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
yes there's a grey area. #
mathchat
7:56 pm
icecolbeveridge
:
@
ColinTGraham
I encourage students to keep a vocab notebook and think about breaking words down #
mathchat
7:57 pm
Tina_Barr
:
@
ColinTGraham
interesting. I have found (my exp is limited to tutoring) that they are unable to conceptualize the bigger words. #
mathchat
7:57 pm
Tina_Barr
:
RT @
icecolbeveridge
: @
ColinTGraham
I encourage students to keep a vocab notebook and think about breaking words down #
mathchat
7:57 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
And that is the 'scary' thing when many teachers may not be confident about their own understanding of maths terms #
mathchat
7:57 pm
kristyswanson
:
No wonder I don't get it! RT @
icecolbeveridge
: I see maths as a foreign language. "It's a box... in maths it's known as a cuboid." #
mathchat
7:58 pm
Janshs
:
@
icecolbeveridge
@
ColinTGraham
vocab  a bit like the earning journal that I ask all students to keep #
mathchat
7:59 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
icecolbeveridge
Certainly I have found keeping a record of Eng/Latin/Greek can help to strengthen connections between concepts #
mathchat
7:59 pm
Janshs
:
@
icecolbeveridge
@
ColinTGraham
but if I have thm in Y7 and get them 'back' in Y11 they remember it but haven't done it in between #
mathchat
7:59 pm
frogphilp
:
Showed video of more able child counting in binary to rest of class. I couldn't explain it to them as I didn't have the words. #
mathchat
7:59 pm
cybraryman1
:
@
icecolbeveridge
Great idea. Links to making your own and math glossaries
http://bit.ly/1PAeOz
#
mathchat
8:00 pm
frogphilp
:
@
kristyswanson
I see maths as more like learning music than learning a foreign language. It's more predictable than languages. #
mathchat
8:00 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Do any of you make a class dictionary? I used to do this with beginning ESL learners using pictures and 'definitions' #
mathchat
8:01 pm
Tina_Barr
:
RT @
cybraryman1
: @
icecolbeveridge
Great idea. Links to making your own and math glossaries
http://bit.ly/1PAeOz
#
mathchat
8:02 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
we make collaborative documents on our VLE for class use #
mathchat
8:02 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
How did you introduce the binary counting to him/them in the first place? #
mathchat
8:03 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
For a short time I was able to get higher level classes to produce explanations and descriptions for lower level ones. #
mathchat
8:04 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
started with place value. Asked what if we couldn't put 9 as maximum digit in each place holder. #
mathchat
8:04 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
short time here = 18 months, 3 6month terms. Both higher & lower enjoyed the experience but higher got more out of it. #
mathchat
8:05 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
interesting, is it about 'explaining in own word'  conceptualising? #
mathchat
8:05 pm
Sundayteatime
:
#
mathchat
I do seem to blather on about latin, greek and hungarian a bit. Don't know if it helps the students.
8:05 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
So your class can handle/understand the placeholder concept... #
mathchat
8:06 pm
republicofmath
:
Gets worse:
http://wp.me/pJESd
Ak @
icecolbeveridge
: math as foreign language: It's a box... in maths it's known as a cuboid. #
mathchat
8:07 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Gary's blog post on the prep page for this topic is an interesting read:
http://bit.ly/a7h7Ae
(for later!) #
mathchat
8:07 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Ah, he beat me to it! @
republicofmath
#
mathchat
8:08 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
These were English language learners rather than maths students, but the same principle should work #
mathchat
8:10 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
The two things the higher level students said almost consistently were (1) I could understand and know how to use the word #
mathchat
8:10 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
Ah there's a question. I think there are misunderstandings for some of them. Need more calculator practice #
mathchat
8:10 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
(2) I got better at explaining things in English because I knew I could do it for the dictionary  so confidence boost! #
mathchat
8:10 pm
republicofmath
:
What is "proper" #
math
language? Should school language be disjoint from professional language? (whatever that is) #
mathchat
8:11 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
and this is a crossover to other curriculum areas perhaps? #
mathchat
 ie use words in context
8:12 pm
maths_teacher
:
@
ColinTGraham
my classes have a glossary of terms they put in the back of their books #
mathchat
8:12 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
So who decides when a word is technical and therefore a maths word, or specific (used differently in maths)? #
mathchat
8:13 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
maths_teacher
Is the glossary given to them or do they build it for themselves as the year goes on? #
mathchat
8:14 pm
maths_teacher
:
@
ColinTGraham
they build it up as the year goes on. Their own definitions (with guidance when needed) #
mathchat
8:14 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
I like to give students that choice really  and also point out that we are 'being Mathematicians' in class???? #
mathchat
8:15 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
republicofmath
That was part of the reason I put 'proper' in "scare quotes". For me the concept is more important than the label. #
mathchat
8:16 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
maths_teacher
Does each student write their own or do you have a class definition or a mixture? #
mathchat
8:16 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
Janshs
What problems or confusions can arise when using newly introduced terminology, or terms from other subjects differently? #
mathchat
8:17 pm
maths_teacher
:
I am insistent that when talking in the classroom they use mathematical words. We also have a vocab wall in corridor of yr 6 words #
mathchat
8:17 pm
maths_teacher
:
@
ColinTGraham
we use a mixture #
mathchat
8:18 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
Have you got binary calculators then, Steve? ;P #
mathchat
8:18 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
ah well lots I suppose .... I try to reassure verbally and get students to use in their responses #
mathchat
8:18 pm
regparsons
:
@
ColinTGraham
I do it after. Same with symbols like the integral sign. #
mathchat
8:18 pm
republicofmath
:
@
ColinTGraham
@
Janshs
Galois first used "group" (actually "groupe")  an everyday word, in a precise #
math
sense. #
mathchat
8:19 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
republicofmath
Part of the issue is that mathematicians who discovered new concepts or ideas needed words to explain them, so... #
mathchat
8:20 pm
maths_teacher
:
wasn't going to join #
mathchat
but the subject caught me! Off to bed now! I'll check the archive tomorrow to see what you said!
8:20 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
My children can telekinetically communicate with computers, so have to speak in binary. It's just the way it is ;) #
mathchat
8:20 pm
ColinTGraham
:
For example, English has "special" words for 1/2, 1/3 and 1/4 although many people refer to fourths rather than quarters #
mathchat
8:20 pm
republicofmath
:
Feel anyone doing #
math
inventing should be able to use own words for concepts. Problem comes if already known as something else. #
mathchat
8:20 pm
unexpectedtales
:
"Set" is one of the words with the most meanings in the English language #
mathchat
8:21 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
maths_teacher
Great, thanks for joining us! #
mathchat
8:22 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Let's try an experiment. I am going to tweet a word and I want you to reply with the first image/definition you think of #
mathchat
8:22 pm
republicofmath
:
Kids can and do lots of #
math
inventing/discovering. How to name things is an issue #
mathchat
8:22 pm
ColinTGraham
:
RAM #
mathchat
8:23 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
republicofmath
Naming and classifying are very closely related, so a lot depends on methods of classifying or grouping too. #
mathchat
8:23 pm
republicofmath
:
Computer memory @
ColinTGraham
RAM #
mathchat
8:24 pm
regparsons
:
@
republicofmath
Yes; they need to use the same language as the greater mathematics community. #
mathchat
8:24 pm
ColinTGraham
:
RT @
xmath2007
: @
ColinTGraham
memory (because all in caps) #
mathchat
8:25 pm
ColinTGraham
:
RT @
regparsons
: @
ColinTGraham
Rectangular approximation method. #
mathchat
8:25 pm
cybraryman1
:
Random Access Memory The animal "ram" #
mathchat
8:25 pm
republicofmath
:
Sure thing  just like gerbes!
http://wp.me/pJESd
Ak @
ColinTGraham
Naming and classifying #
mathchat
8:26 pm
Sundayteatime
:
Sheep #
mathchat
8:26 pm
regparsons
:
@
ColinTGraham
I'm beginning the chapter on definite integrals! #
mathchat
8:26 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Now if this had been a social studies or history chat then someone would probably have mentioned battering rams... #
mathchat
8:26 pm
elenelsecchio
:
A male sheep! :) @
ColinTGraham
RAM #
mathchat
8:27 pm
icecolbeveridge
:
@
ColinTGraham
Disks. But then I realised I was thinking of RAID. And that's a whole nother connotation. #
mathchat
8:28 pm
ColinTGraham
:
I wonder if I had tweeted ram or Ram whether that would have changed anything... so point is awareness of context and maybe schema #
mathchat
8:29 pm
republicofmath
:
What if I were to Tweet: "square root" ? What's the FIRST thing you think of? #
mathchat
8:30 pm
ColinTGraham
:
What types of activity do any of you do in relation to naming and classifying things you'll need to use regularly? #
mathchat
8:30 pm
Janshs
:
@
republicofmath
pythagoras (sorry) #
mathchat
8:30 pm
arthurpdent42
:
@
republicofmath
Square root of course #
mathchat
8:30 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
republicofmath
A cubic turnip... because I'm thinking in exception mode now! #
mathchat
8:31 pm
Sundayteatime
:
@
republicofmath
2 #
mathchat
8:31 pm
republicofmath
:
Why sorry? Great answer! @
Janshspythagoras
(sorry) #
mathchat
8:33 pm
frogphilp
:
Just posted about definitions of maths
http://bit.ly/9QbJLG
#
mathchat
8:33 pm
Janshs
:
it is roughly 75 hours to my birthday  not a 'special' one  myabe that's why I feel a bit glum, despitre lovely #
mathchat
8:33 pm
republicofmath
:
Why of course? I think sqrt(2) irrational. (Or was it a joke?) @
arthurpdent42
Square root of course #
mathchat
8:33 pm
cybraryman1
:
For 101010 I Suggest watching Powers of Ten video (Math & Science):
http://bit.ly/j1NEC
#
mathchat
#
scichat
#
math
#
science
8:34 pm
Janshs
:
@
republicofmath
i wish I knew the square root of 2 (count letters, you know his one of ourse) #
mathchat
8:34 pm
mathchat
:
What types of activity do any of you do in relation to naming and classifying things you'll need to use regularly? #
mathchat
8:35 pm
chibaf
:
RT @
republicofmath
: Gets worse:
http://wp.me/pJESd
Ak @
icecolbeveridge
: math as foreign language: It's a box... #
mathchat
8:36 pm
icecolbeveridge
:
@
Janshs
Oh, come on, 22 isn't old! #
mathchat
(Many happy returns.)
8:36 pm
arthurpdent42
:
@
republicofmath
I guess I'm not as mathsy as you #
mathchat
it wasn't a joke...
8:36 pm
Janshs
:
@
icecolbeveridge
teehee I'm sure I am 22 in some base or other ;) #
mathchat
8:37 pm
mathattck
:
@
republicofmath
"Square Root" confusion, since root symbol means positive root only. Good example of homonym. #
mathchat
8:37 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
arthurpdent42
So did you get a picture of the square root symbol? #
mathchat
8:37 pm
Janshs
:
@
republicofmath
just seemed a bit obvious #
mathchat
8:40 pm
ColinTGraham
:
I think the point has been made that we probably all know the square root sign or what a square root is in maths, context now diff #
mathchat
8:41 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Let's move in a slightly different direction: How consistent are you in your own use of terminology? #
mathchat
8:41 pm
mathattck
:
Technical math language is overdone in Ontario schools, imo, should make distinction between informal and formal. #
mathchat
8:41 pm
Caro_lann
:
@
republicofmath
A spell ingredient in the old board game "Elixir" popped into my mind. #
mathchat
8:43 pm
mmoriconi
:
irrational, reductio ad absurdum, greeks, cows... #
mathchat
8:43 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
That's easy. Somedays I'm really consistent. Other days I'm not. #
mathchat
8:45 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Does inconsistency matter/have an impact? RT @
frogphilp
: That's easy. Somedays I'm really consistent. Other days I'm not. #
mathchat
8:45 pm
mathattck
:
@
ColinTGraham
Language consistency is really important, so appeal to formal language when in doubt of meaning! #
mathchat
8:45 pm
icecolbeveridge
:
@
frogphilp
As Bryan Robson once said: If we played like this every week, we wouldn't be so inconsistent #
mathchat
8:47 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
mathattck
But if you doubt the meaning, that is the last time you should use formal (or maybe technical) language... isn't it? #
mathchat
8:47 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
I'm inconsistent because I'm exploring ideas as we go along. I expect children to have same attitude #
mathchat
8:49 pm
ColinTGraham
:
@
frogphilp
And since you are working with 8yo then expansion of vocabulary and finding alternate ways to explain are important too #
mathchat
8:51 pm
frogphilp
:
@
ColinTGraham
Yes. 811 though. I have more able children (we set 711, but that's an entirely different issue!) #
mathchat
8:57 pm
mathattck
:
@
ColinTGraham
Need technical language to be precise, remove ambiguity, appeal to definitions. #
mathchat
8:59 pm
mathattck
:
@
ColinTGraham
Need technical language to be precise, remove ambiguity, appeal to definitions. #
mathchat
9:02 pm
ColinTGraham
:
Archive will be online in about 30 minutes or so... see you next time! #
mathchat
9:02 pm
icecolbeveridge
:
#
mathchat
Technical definitions are important to allow clear communication of common properties. Important to know, but...
9:02 pm
icecolbeveridge
:
#
mathchat
... I did once include the term "a wee shoogle" on a conference paper.
9:03 pm
Janshs
:
@
ColinTGraham
thanks to all esp you for #
mathchat
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What terminology should we use and when  'proper' mathematical terms or everyday language?
As it happened on Monday, 4th October 2010, 19:30  21:00 GMT