Topic (follow-up to Thursday, 2nd September 2010):
How do we get our students to become more reflective learners?
As it happened on Monday, 6th September 2010, 19:30 - 21:00 GMT
7:30 pm
ColinTGraham:
Welcome to this week's #mathchat
7:31 pm
ColinTGraham:
If it's your first time a special welcome! Don't try to follow everything, just respond to one or two people. Don't forget to add #mathchat
7:31 pm
ColinTGraham:
Tonight's topic: "How do we get our students to become more reflective learners?" #mathchat
7:32 pm
ColinTGraham:
What do you see as the essential components of reflective learning? #mathchat
7:35 pm
mggale:
The capacity to mark or take note of something during activity is surely necessary if one is to return to it later to reflect #mathchat
7:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mggale So you could label that as "awareness" ? #mathchat
7:38 pm
cybraryman1:
Learning linked to action through networking. #mathchat
7:39 pm
ColinTGraham:
@cybraryman1 What type of networking do you mean Jerry? #mathchat
7:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mggale How would you go about teaching or assisting in the noticing or deciding what is remarkable? #mathchat
7:40 pm
cybraryman1:
Networking with your PLN either face to face or online. #mathchat
7:41 pm
Janshs:
although re adult learners (& not Maths) might still be of interest for reflective learninghttp://educatingtrainers.blogspot.com/ #mathchat
7:41 pm
ColinTGraham:
@cybraryman1 So at what age would this start? #mathchat
7:42 pm
Janshs:
. @raff31 have used flip video to create podcasts of pupils interviewing each other (hotseating) on specific Maths topics (also #mathchat)
7:42 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs The links I provided for prep were related to adults too, Jan! How early would you introduce the principles? #mathchat
7:43 pm
cybraryman1:
It depends on the student & their ability to communicate #mathchat
7:43 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham I start with Y7 doing reflective maths journal as part of lesson & sometimes as hw #mathchat
7:44 pm
padgets:
#mathchat Hi everyone! sorry I am late, been looking at the chat, I would introduce at around age 7 or 8
7:44 pm
ColinTGraham:
@cybraryman1 What type of information would you expect Ss to communicate as part of reflective learning? #mathchat
7:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets What types of activity would you use to do this, Sharon? #mathchat
7:45 pm
mggale:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Awareness perhaps, but not necessarily, Reflection=account of an event (awareness) + account for the event.
7:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs Are 12/13 yr olds used to the idea of journaling or does that have to be taught too? #mathchat
7:46 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mggale So more of describe, interpret, explain progression? #mathchat
7:47 pm
padgets:
#mathchat do this journaling after a difficult lesson or lab, and after an assessment
7:47 pm
Janshs:
. @ColinTGraham I find they need a bit of guidance but soon pick it up, what do you think? (reflective journals for young stdts) #mathchat
7:48 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @padgets: #mathchat used edublogs, but am now using twiducate, having them answer I now know, I discovered and I want to know more about
7:49 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs I would like to see it being across subjects by the secondary stage (Y6 - Y13), rather than subject-specific, but yes! #mathchat
7:50 pm
mggale:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Yes, but I suspect they find describing significant moments most difficult. Not sure if this is explicitly tought.
7:50 pm
Janshs:
. @ColinTGraham yes agreed, should be all subjects #mathchat
7:50 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets So this is maybe beginning the process of meta-knowledge (to use the term from the modified Bloom's taxonomy) #mathchat
7:51 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs Who would get to read the journals? Online/hardcopy/mixture...? #mathchat
7:51 pm
padgets:
@mggale #mathchat mine did at first but with regular times to write, it becomes easier and if we do not do it they ask to
7:52 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Journals- write everything they are thinking/ feeling while working on a problem. Identifies panic blockage points.
7:52 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mggale One difficulty is that mathematicians can usually spot what is significant or vital, but Ss need help in the noticing #mathchat
7:52 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat yes, I think so, When I first started I got a surprise message from the English teachers asking about it
7:53 pm
mggale:
@padgets #mathchat Reflection is a habbit then?
7:53 pm
Janshs:
. @ColinTGraham have done various ways, in ex bks, photocopied for peers, done wiki, used VLE, still working on it #mathchat
7:53 pm
cybraryman1:
Reflective learning should become routine and done in all subjects #mathchat
7:53 pm
padgets:
#mathchat sometimes I throw in "if I were the teacher I would ..."
7:53 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann So a kind of place to vent emotions. Would you encourage recording the process of solving too? #mathchat
7:54 pm
padgets:
@mggale #mathchat I think so, it has been a great way to check for understanding and sometimes I find out what may be bugging my students
7:55 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Need to allow lots of time for reflection process.
7:55 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs I know Moodle, for example, allows online journalling where moderators can access but not others, or should Ss rewrite...? #mathchat
7:55 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs By re-writing I mean taking a raw journal entry and then reframing it for a blog post or sharing with class/teacher #mathchat
7:56 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann Would you programme this extra time into lessons, before, after, during? #mathchat
7:57 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Yes. Work through problem recording steps/ thoughts/ feelings. One problem could take 5 or 6 pages of writing.
7:57 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @mggale: @ColinTGraham Valuing the process, not the outcome... #mathchat
7:58 pm
ColinTGraham:
@mggale Focus on process rather than outcome/answer seems to be a continuing theme of #mathchat and maths teaching!
7:58 pm
padgets:
#mathchat we refect 2-3 times a week as part of our lessons, about 30-40 min each time, they work on other things when they are done
7:59 pm
padgets:
#mathchat I do mostly station teaching so blogging or journaling is one of those staions
7:59 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets You also teach science which maybe has a long tradition of lab-books, recording, designing approaches, testing hypotheses #mathchat
8:00 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham mm our VLE not that sophisticated as far as I know (use Moodle in other life) #mathchat
8:00 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat yes very true, but the blogging is new to my students, some have a hard time not using a pencil and paper
8:01 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Start by modelling process then occasional journal sessions in class. Expect ss to do more at home.
8:02 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Janshs I think the point is that knowledge of readership can affect what you write. #mathchat
8:02 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann Do you get Ss to revisit earlier journal entries and reflect on how they would do things now? #mathchat
8:02 pm
padgets:
#mathchat has anyone done podcasting with reflection lessons?
8:02 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham yes I like that idea - will try that out w/ new Y9 class I think thx #mathchat
8:03 pm
Caro_lann:
Process leads to insight and starts metacognition. #mathchat
8:04 pm
Janshs:
@ColinTGraham of course, practising writing is importnat at all ages and stages and subjects I think #mathchat
8:04 pm
ColinTGraham:
One thing about recording process is that it can also validate different approaches to a correct solution. eg Mental vs. Algorithm #mathchat
8:05 pm
padgets:
#mathchat What about using Glogster?
8:05 pm
cybraryman1:
If students struggle with a problem try a reflective writing prompt to get them thinking about how to address it #mathchat
8:06 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I was thinking it might help a teacher learn how a child is solving problems, can taylor the help
8:06 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets Glogster would be a fairly public expression of what you learned or discovered... #mathchat
8:06 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Ss often return to previous entries as they gain insight into own "blocks"- often emotional. I suggest it too.
8:07 pm
ColinTGraham:
@cybraryman1 Asking them to identify what information or what type of thing is blocking them? #mathchat
8:08 pm
ColinTGraham:
If I am honest, I am not a good journal keeper. I find it too much like navel-gazing, which I am expert at! #mathchat
8:08 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @padgets: true, but also can be great for kids who do not write well or are better at expressing using visuals #mathchat
8:08 pm
cybraryman1:
@ColinTGraham Gets them to start analyzing the problem and what they see initially #mathchat
8:09 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets asked about podcasts. Does anyone else use dialogue or small group conversations as an approach to reflection? #mathchat
8:10 pm
marketspi:
#mathchat hello just been catching up. Are we thinking reflection in short term (over a lesson) or in long term? Or both?
8:10 pm
ColinTGraham:
@cybraryman1 which comes back to the idea of noticing, which @mggale mentioned earlier #mathchat
8:10 pm
padgets:
#mathchat @marketspi I was thinking both
8:11 pm
ColinTGraham:
@marketspi Getting learners to become reflective. I would see that as a life-long attribute! #mathchat
8:12 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Avoid "navel gazing" by keeping focus on approach to solving/ reason for avoiding a particular problem
8:12 pm
cybraryman1:
@ColinTGraham Sorry but I am multitasking or attemtpting to as my PLN has questions & needs. #mathchat
8:12 pm
ColinTGraham:
@cybraryman1 OK, join us when you can Jerry, we're here for another 45 minutes! #mathchat
8:13 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann The navel gazing is more about being too introspective. Sometimes I get more by bouncing (reflecting) off others... #mathchat
8:14 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat me too, love the PLN!
8:15 pm
ColinTGraham:
Notes From McTeach: Learning to Blog Using Paper http://bit.ly/drPGGl may help with introducing blogging to young teens... #mathchat
8:16 pm
POWERORGmath:
RT @padgets: #mathchat I do mostly station teaching so blogging or journaling is one of those staions
8:16 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Feedback from peers/ tutors can often help but ss have to decide whether to share journal. Might be personal/ painful.
8:16 pm
ColinTGraham:
To summarize so far: notice, record, return to record, focus on process. What else assists in reflective learning? #mathchat
8:18 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann I think for teens just as much as for adults! That's why I suggested the idea of rewriting/presenting extracts #mathchat
8:19 pm
ColinTGraham:
Is there a difference between critical-thinking skills and reflective-learning skills? #mathchat
8:20 pm
timstirrup:
#mathchat we ask our pupils to reflect on their learning, but how many of us actively and formally reflect on our own teaching?
8:20 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I have taught this way with teens too. It's harder to get them started but they are more open to receiving feedback
8:21 pm
ColinTGraham:
@timstirrup I know I do, but certainly we should model the process if we want our learners to #mathchat
8:22 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann Whose feedback seems to carry more weight? Yours, their peers, or is it equal? #mathchat
8:22 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat i look at critical thinking as a way to solve the problem and reflection as a way to see what i did to solve it
8:23 pm
ColinTGraham:
What alternatives can we provide for those who do not find journals especially useful/helpful? #mathchat
8:23 pm
Caro_lann:
Reflective practice is crucial. On teaching and on CPD. We are all learning! #mathchat
8:23 pm
padgets:
@timstirrup #mathchat great question, I do not do as much as I should
8:25 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets And then you go back to your reflections and think critically about how your process could be improved...? #mathchat
8:26 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat yes, I have found after 17 years I can still change and adapt, that is why I tweet, it is great PD
8:26 pm
ColinTGraham:
Is the action research process something that could usefully/practically be introduced with 11yrs+ ? #mathchat
8:27 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Both-they share the eureka moments with each other and support each other. Helps them to see others have blocks too
8:27 pm
fullonlearning:
RT @Caro_lann: Reflective practice is crucial. On teaching and on CPD. We are all learning! #mathchat
8:28 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets Similar responses I have seen from others here and in other chats, suggest the 'formal' twitter discussions play a role! #mathchat
8:28 pm
padgets:
#mathchat when my students found out I tweet and why, they embraced blogging, only after I did it first
8:28 pm
fullonlearning:
RT @ColinTGraham: @padgets And then you go back to your reflections and think critically about how your process could be improved...? #mathchat
8:29 pm
ColinTGraham:
Should introducing reflective learning help students formulate attainable, specific goals in maths? #mathchat
8:30 pm
ColinTGraham:
What I am asking here is using reflective learning at student level, should be helping them make their own formative assessments #mathchat
8:31 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I think so, How many times do students not ask questions and we find out later when they are struggling?
8:31 pm
akamomteach:
RT @padgets: #mathchat I do mostly station teaching so blogging or journaling is one of those staions
8:32 pm
padgets:
#mathchat if I had reflected as part of learning math as I grew up and my teacher noticed, i would not be math challenged today
8:32 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets Is that because questioning has not been encouraged or is it because the Ss don't know they have a problem? #mathchat
8:34 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I think both
8:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann Do you revisit or record the eureka moments with everyone in the class? or is it "Aha!" record, move on... #mathchat
8:34 pm
Caro_lann:
RT @ColinTGraham:..using reflective learning at student level, should be helping them make their own formative assessments <-- yes #mathchat
8:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
What kinds of work samples should be included in a portfolio to reflect growth and/or learning? both in maths and generally #mathchat
8:37 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I think anything that a student wishes to share that shows growth no matter how small
8:37 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I ask ss if they want to share eureka moments. Sometimes they relate to "basic" concepts so they don't want to
8:38 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets So student choice of content. Guided by teacher or completely hands-off unless asked? #mathchat
8:39 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat guided
8:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann Sometimes the "basic" stuff is an important underlying maths fact, such as commutativity or distribution, though! #mathchat
8:42 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Eurekas relating to trig etc nearlyalways get shared.Place value/ d'mals etc mostly not. Next reflection is why?
8:43 pm
ColinTGraham:
Do our maths curricula provide enough time and flexibility for reflective learning or is it still mostly rushed through? #mathchat
8:43 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann I think placeholders are one of the most difficult concepts to get a handle on, of the "basic" stuff! #mathchat
8:43 pm
padgets:
#mathchat should portfolios be one subject or the whole ed experience?
8:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets What do you think? How about one for each subject with an overall to reflect on achievements/areas for improvement? #mathchat
8:47 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat like in a wiki a page for core areas each, one for classes outside core, extra activities one, then community one
8:47 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I use "always/ sometimes/never true" activity for laws if arithmetic. Group task so automatically shared thoughts.
8:50 pm
ColinTGraham:
So if you are using journals. Do you also make recommendations to Ss, such as "You should write that up". #mathchat
8:51 pm
ColinTGraham:
If you do, then do they do the write-up immediately, make brief notes... what about timing issues? #mathchat
8:51 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat well, since we blog 2-3 times a week, it usually centers around what we plan to do, are doing or will be doing
8:53 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets If it's centred on plans, then part of the reflection could include what changed about the plans and why... #mathchat
8:54 pm
padgets:
#mathchat I encourage them to write at least 2-3 good sentences for each sentence starter
8:54 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat sometimes they do sometimes not
8:54 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets Do you have examples of your sentence starters? #mathchat
8:56 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I now know I discovered I want to know more about I am questioning I am wanting to improve they choose 3
8:58 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets OK, so a kind of general reflection on what happened and where to go next. Do they tend to choose the same 3 starters? #mathchat
8:58 pm
ColinTGraham:
OK, any final 'reflections' (hee hee) or thoughts for the last few minutes? #mathchat
8:58 pm
Caro_lann:
@padgets @ColinTGraham #mathchat Even if they write good sentences, do they mean them? How do they/ you follow up?
8:59 pm
padgets:
#mathchat I am sorry have to go making lasangna (sp?) tonight for dinner As always thanks for the conversation and sharing of your ideas
9:00 pm
padgets:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat sometimes, but I say you can't use the same three 2 times in a row
9:00 pm
padgets:
@Caro_lann #mathchat it usually shows up on a summative assessment
9:00 pm
ColinTGraham:
@padgets Thanks for joining us Sharon, enjoy your dinner! #mathchat
9:02 pm
ColinTGraham:
Looks like it's time-up! Thanks to all our participants. See you on Thursday, maybe ;-) Archive will be up in about 30 minutes. #mathchat
9:03 pm
Caro_lann:
Interesting that the focus was much less on the "tech tools" and more on the learning tonight. Made a nice change! #mathchat
9:04 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann It's not all about tech, thank goodness! Sometimes you need to think too... ;-) #mathchat