Topic (follow-up to Thursday DATE): What maths should be in a curriculum that every adult should know or be able to do?
As it happened on Monday, 30th August 2010 19:30 - 21:00 GMT

7:31 pm
ColinTGraham:
Hello everyone welcome to our Monday topic revisit #mathchat
7:31 pm
ColinTGraham:
"What maths should be in a curriculum that every adult should know or be able to do?" #mathchat
7:32 pm
ColinTGraham:
If it's your first time, welcome! Don't try to follow everything, focus on one or two tweets and interact with the tweeter #mathchat
7:32 pm
ColinTGraham:
Don't forget to use the hashtag! #mathchat
7:33 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham thank you for the welcome and explanation. I'm here! #mathchat
7:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
So let's start with: What do you see as being essential areas of maths that adults need - be specific! #mathchat
7:34 pm
ghewgley:
Students need to know basic math (add/subtract/multiply/divide), basic fractions, and measuring. #mathchat
7:35 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham reverse percentages. My Dad phoned me up about that the other day! #mathchat
7:35 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Why, what situations do adults use these in? #mathchat
7:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
Example, please... RT @maths_teacher: @ColinTGraham reverse percentages. My Dad phoned me up about that the other day! #mathchat
7:36 pm
maths_teacher:
in fact any percentages! #mathchat
7:36 pm
SpaBits:
El sistema que utilizamos para representar los números se denomina sistema decimal de numeración. #math #mathchat #classroom #class
7:37 pm
ghewgley:
Use basic math at grocery store. Fractions for cooking, construction,etc. Measuring for house, yard, lots of jobs. #mathchat
7:37 pm
ColinTGraham:
@maths_teacher Do you have specific examples where %ages need to be understood, Liz? #mathchat
7:37 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham he needed to know the cost of something before the VAT was added and got it wrong! #mathchat
7:38 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham I think tax is the biggest issue. #mathchat
7:39 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Adults need to know how not to get fooled by stats and probabilities
7:39 pm
Cassyt:
Problem solving skills. RT @ColinTGraham: What do you see as being essential areas of maths that adults need #mathchat
7:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @marketspi: ... reverse % : meaning eg: a coat with 25% off sells for £60. How much was it before discount... #mathchat
7:40 pm
marketspi:
@ColinTGraham @maths_teacher reverse % : meaning eg: a coat with 25% off sells for £60. How much was it before discount... #mathchat
7:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
So, % for tax, discount offers, shopping... Statistics and probability for "fact checking" #mathchat
7:41 pm
ghewgley:
@Caro_lann But you only need very, very basic Stat for the "non fooling" part. #mathchat
7:41 pm
ColinTGraham:
Fractions for scaling recipes, DIY... Measuring for household jobs... #mathchat
7:42 pm
ghewgley:
They don't need calculus, trig, matrix algebra, abstract algebra, etc. #mathchat
7:42 pm
ColinTGraham:
How about being able to read graphs and charts...? #mathchat
7:42 pm
marketspi:
#mathchat adults need: units of measurement and conversions eg 1m=100cm
7:43 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Cassyt What sort of problem-solving skills? or do you see maths teaching as being the teaching of problem solving approaches? #mathchat
7:43 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Some common measures- metric/imperial/US
7:44 pm
maths_teacher:
@marketspi even more they need to understand that 1msq is not 100 cmsq. #mathchat
7:44 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Basic chart/graph reading, but even I don't undersatnd some graphs. :) #mathchat
7:44 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann Why should imperial measurement be taught... just because the BBC still uses it... >:-) #mathchat
7:45 pm
marketspi:
@ghewgley obviously depending on job. And surely we all use algebra without recognising it as such when we have unknown values? #mathchat
7:45 pm
TheHeadsOffice:
#mathchat It is really important that people know when the calculation is not right
7:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
So graph drawing would be useful too! RT @ghewgley: @ColinTGraham ...but even I don't understand some graphs. :) #mathchat
7:45 pm
TheHeadsOffice:
#mathchat Need to have a good idea of change they receive
7:46 pm
marketspi:
@maths_teacher totally! Such a hard concept even for the brightest pupils! #mathchat
7:46 pm
ColinTGraham:
@TheHeadsOffice How would you teach checking skills... mental arithmetic, estimating... #mathchat
7:46 pm
Caro_lann:
@ghewgley #mathchat I'm thinking any stats that appear in the mass media. Graphs and infographics; counterintuitive probability etc
7:46 pm
ghewgley:
@marketspi Depending on a certain job is not "all adults". An astrophysicist needs to know things a janitor does not need. #mathchat
7:47 pm
ColinTGraham:
Working with money, should we teach basic financial skills? RT @TheHeadsOffice: Need to have a good idea of change they receive #mathchat
7:47 pm
rliberni:
RT @ColinTGraham: Working with money, should we teach basic financial skills? RT @TheHeadsOffice: Need to have a good idea of change they receive #mathchat
7:48 pm
ghewgley:
@Caro_lann But do you really need all of those things? Stats can be so manipulated that anything past basic is very confusing. #mathchat
7:48 pm
ColinTGraham:
@marketspi A lot of my pupils were refugees or Japanese, so metric responses! #mathchat
7:48 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Lots of adults still use imperial measures and need to use them correctly. Start where they are!
7:49 pm
marketspi:
@ghewgley indeed, but what I mean is if teaching future adults we offer range of topics so they have basis no matter what they do #mathchat
7:49 pm
ColinTGraham:
Maths teachers have problems too RT @ghewgley @Caro_lann... Stat can be so manipulated that anything past basic is very confusing. #mathchat
7:50 pm
marketspi:
@ghewgley it could be that we are discussing maybe adult maths courses for engineers or chefs or hairdressers... #mathchat
7:50 pm
Caro_lann:
@ghewgley #mathchat That's exactly why we need to teach it! Adults live in the world, not just in the maths class.
7:50 pm
ghewgley:
Schools require so much more math than is required by the average citizen. What percentage actually uses trig, calc, matrix alg? #mathchat
7:51 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann's point raises two types of curriculum questions... Adults now and adults of the future... commonalities are? #mathchat
7:51 pm
marketspi:
@ColinTGraham cool, how interesting! Will look out for that next time I ask! #mathchat
7:51 pm
ghewgley:
@marketspi I was talking about all adults. Other material can be built upon those basic skills when needed. #mathchat
7:52 pm
ghewgley:
@Caro_lann I was referring to all adults. Just like all adults don't need inorganic chem. #mathchat
7:53 pm
ColinTGraham:
So what maths were you taught that you have never used as an 'ordinary' adult? #mathchat
7:53 pm
ghewgley:
I honestly believe that we are trying to add to many concepts into the secondary math curriculum. #mathchat
7:54 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley I raising the issue of "When does a mathematics curriculum become too specialist for the average person?" I think #mathchat
7:54 pm
maths_teacher:
maybe the curriculum should be basic maths, and then we teach the maths required within a specific subject,eg. engineering diploma #mathchat
7:54 pm
dughall:
@ColinTGraham Matrices & calculus spring to mind. #mathchat
7:55 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham circle theorems! #mathchat
7:55 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Trig, matrix algebra, abstract algebra, very little calc I, no calc 3. #mathchat Never used them.
7:55 pm
Natty08:
@ColinTGraham trig, pythargos theory, sim. equations #mathchat never ever used these!
7:56 pm
kimyaris:
RT @ghewgley: @ColinTGraham Trig, matrix algebra, abstract algebra, very little calc I, no calc 3. #mathchat Never used them.
7:56 pm
ColinTGraham:
For me, solving quadratics, angular geometry, sines, cosines, sums of infinite series... #mathchat
7:56 pm
ghewgley:
@maths_teacher Excellent idea. More complex math could be an elective. Add extra art, social studies, PE, sci, etc in its place. #mathchat
7:56 pm
Caro_lann:
@ghewgley #mathchat Me too! I teach adult numeracy and looking at stats in the media is a big part of what my learners want.
7:57 pm
EddieGouthwaite:
@waynechadburn #mathchat #ukedchat
7:57 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat I've never divided a fraction by another fraction in my everyday life!
7:58 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Do you mean the proofs for calculus, because some everyday work uses calculus without it being explicitly labelled #mathchat
7:58 pm
ghewgley:
@Caro_lann But political/product stats can be so manipulated that they are almost useless - just my opinion. #mathchat
7:59 pm
ColinTGraham:
Reverse %ages Carol, fraction work? RT @Caro_lann: I've never divided a fraction by another fraction in my everyday life! #mathchat
7:59 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham What everyday work uses Calc 1, 2 or 3? #mathchat
8:00 pm
icecolbeveridge:
My _bank_ didn't know how to do reverse percentages. I was pretty frightened by that. @ColinTGraham#mathchat
8:00 pm
ColinTGraham:
I bet if you ask anyone for the area of a circle they can regurgitate... RT @maths_teacher: @ColinTGraham circle theorems! #mathchat
8:00 pm
EddieGouthwaite:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat I have multiplied one though:) #fractions
8:00 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham I mean that what regular old person would use calc 1,2, or 3? #mathchat
8:01 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Without knowing the content of Calc 1-3 (US terms!) how about laying carpet squares... #mathchat
8:02 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Calculating how long it will take you to reach a destination based on current progress while driving #mathchat
8:02 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham I highly doubt a carpet layer is doing derivatives and using the chain rule - they'd get fired for playing around! #mathchat
8:02 pm
KnikiDavies:
@ColinTGraham Have/could they split maths into people who want to do A level and beyond and people who just want everyday maths? #mathchat
8:02 pm
icecolbeveridge:
I have only ever used one circle theorem: to help a cartoonist find the centre of a circle. #mathchat
8:02 pm
maths_teacher:
@icecolbeveridge my Dad runs a shop and needed a price without VAT, I thought he was good at Maths but he got it wrong. #mathchat
8:02 pm
ColinTGraham:
Contexts for calculus: http://www.mathman.biz/html/map.html even if we don't describe it as such #mathchat
8:03 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Don't need calculus to figure that out (driving times). It can be done with basic math. #mathchat
8:03 pm
FibonacciBook:
I'll be presenting at the NCCTM in #Greensboro #NC USA this fall. Will anyone be there? #mathchat
8:03 pm
EmilyEmbury:
RT @keypress: Two Discovering Algebra webinars next week! 9/7: http://bit.ly/bHNODq and 9/8:http://bit.ly/d9jt6y #math #mathchat
8:03 pm
ColinTGraham:
@KnikiDavies Isn't that called two-tier GCSEs...? ;-P #mathchat
8:03 pm
maths_teacher:
@KnikiDavies Isn't that what setting does? #mathchat
8:04 pm
marketspi:
@icecolbeveridge great application though! I could use that in class! :) #mathchat
8:05 pm
ColinTGraham:
But they've got computers... RT @icecolbeveridge: My _bank_ didn't know how to do reverse percentages... #mathchat
8:05 pm
ghewgley:
In the U, NCTM is pushing for Calc 1 in lower level high school. Calc 2 by graduation. #mathchat
8:05 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@maths_teacher He needs the Table of Joy! http://flyingcoloursmaths.co.uk/toj_ebook.pdf #mathchat
8:05 pm
ColinTGraham:
@maths_teacher Maybe your dad just needs a written formula that he can apply. Does he need to understand why it works though? #mathchat
8:06 pm
ghewgley:
By going over so many different math fields, do we spread ourselves thin on the basics? #mathchat
8:06 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ColinTGraham That doesn't mean they could work it out! #mathchat
8:07 pm
mikemcsharry:
@ColinTGraham my youngest could add 17.5% vat on in his head when he was 8 #mathchat
8:07 pm
ColinTGraham:
@EddieGouthwaite I think we've all multiplied fractions! Division is a concept required for algebra though... #mathchat
8:07 pm
maths_teacher:
@icecolbeveridge that book is a great resource. Can I use it at school? #mathchat
8:07 pm
icecolbeveridge:
RT @ghewgley: By going over so many different math fields, do we spread ourselves thin on the basics? #mathchat
8:07 pm
JoanneC23:
Switched off Twitter to concentrate on the story of maths prog, only to come back and find u all talking about maths! #mathchat
8:07 pm
KnikiDavies:
@ColinTGraham I was thinking advanced maths but still related to real life. I love algebra but appreciate most people don't! #mathchat
8:08 pm
ghewgley:
Maybe instead of working up, we could work on building a stronger basic math foundation? #mathchat
8:08 pm
ColinTGraham:
Learnt at home or at school? RT @mikemcsharry: @ColinTGraham my youngest could add 17.5% vat on in his head when he was 8 #mathchat
8:08 pm
marketspi:
@ghewgley what I love about covering more topics is that everyone can find something they like & are good at? #mathchat
8:09 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@maths_teacher Absolutely, let me know if you have any suggestions! #mathchat
8:09 pm
EddieGouthwaite:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat http://bit.ly/cbVAU8 look here
8:09 pm
ruth4916:
@Caro_lann My pre-Nursing students must simplify complex fractions to figure some dosage questions. #mathchat
8:09 pm
chris_1974:
@ColinTGraham @mikemcsharry and taking off the 17.5% is a much harder question. #mathchat
8:09 pm
ghewgley:
@marketspi What's that saying? Practitioner of many, master of none? Do we produce students who know a little about a lot? #mathchat
8:09 pm
ColinTGraham:
What would constitute a basic maths curriculum, then... without the unnecessary additions such as geometry, algebra, binomials... #mathchat
8:10 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Maybe it's logic, critical thinking, problem solving etc that are most important , rather than "skills"?
8:10 pm
ghewgley:
@marketspi And my comments have nothing to do with electives, I'm just talking about required math. #mathchat
8:10 pm
ColinTGraham:
@chris_1974 Yes, the removal of VAT was the point raised by Liz earlier... #mathchat
8:10 pm
maths_teacher:
@marketspi but I think it's wrong that we make our weaker students carry on learning lots of topics when they need numeracy #mathchat
8:11 pm
icecolbeveridge:
I think there's a difference between the maths you need to be a functional adult and the maths you need for science. #mathchat
8:11 pm
chris_1974:
@ColinTGraham sorry - arrived late! <slaps own wrist> #mathchat
8:11 pm
icecolbeveridge:
... and doesn't make sense to me for everyone to learn adv maths, the same way as not everyone does history. #mathchat
8:12 pm
KnikiDavies:
@Caro_lann I like working things out like "Would Usain Bolt set off a 20mph speed camera?" #mathchat I have a strange idea of fun lol
8:12 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham 4 operations, percentages, general numeracy #mathchat
8:12 pm
icecolbeveridge:
RT @maths_teacher: @marketspi but I think it's wrong that we make our weaker students carry on learning lots of topics when they need numeracy #mathchat
8:12 pm
Caro_lann:
@ruth4916 #mathchat Every job has it's specific requirements which should maybe be taught as part of the vocational education?
8:12 pm
ColinTGraham:
@icecolbeveridge Yes, and we should probably be thinking about functional adults, since they are likely to be the majority! #mathchat
8:12 pm
cybraryman1:
Helpful math page for children & adults My Calculators & Measurement page: http://bit.ly/6AYQ2G#mathchat
8:12 pm
EmilyEmbury:
Shmoop's Free Pre-Algebra Curriculum via Educators' Royal Treatment http://bit.ly/cCDga3 (Thanks to @KenRoyal) #math #mathchat
8:12 pm
ghewgley:
@icecolbeveridge Not everyone selects /ath/science and goes on to get their PhD. Schools are set up for students to get PhD's. #mathchat
8:13 pm
ColinTGraham:
But do we need to divide fractions...? RT @maths_teacher: @ColinTGraham 4 operations, percentages, general numeracy #mathchat
8:13 pm
marketspi:
@maths_teacher agree, we don't have a need to teach low classes hideous maths but everyone needs a break from num, so do shape etc #mathchat
8:13 pm
ghewgley:
@icecolbeveridge But schools act as if everyone should learn advanced math. #mathchat
8:13 pm
Caro_lann:
@KnikiDavies #mathchat Me too! I'm a total maths geek. Always go straight for the algebra for newspaper puzzles.
8:14 pm
ColinTGraham:
Because national curricula say so...? RT @ghewgley: @icecolbeveridge But schools act as if everyone should learn advanced math. #mathchat
8:15 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ghewgley So, the big question is: what is the purpose of education? Producing academics or functioning adults (or both)? #mathchat
8:15 pm
chris_1974:
@marketspi @maths_teacher and for kitchen tilers and painter/decorators knowledge of shape etc important. #mathchat
8:15 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Because schools are now set up as assuming everyone must go to college. If you don't you failed. #mathchat
8:15 pm
ColinTGraham:
Let's explore maths for adult students versus maths for children who are going to become functional adults #mathchat
8:15 pm
marketspi:
@ghewgley not sure about that! And I'm at a high achieving school! #mathchat
8:16 pm
ghewgley:
One of the measurements of a school's success is how many go to college. Is that success? What about art, music, athletics? #mathchat
8:16 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat UK adult numeracy curriculum has number, measures, shape & space, data handling and probability. All in I hour a week!
8:16 pm
ColinTGraham:
For those dealing with adults, what do you see as being their shortcomings in maths - we already had reverse %s #mathchat
8:16 pm
maths_teacher:
If I didn't feel like I have to follow national curriculum and get my pupils a grade C I wouldn't teach it all to lower students #mathchat
8:16 pm
mikemcsharry:
fuel for #mathchat f=ma+1/2m.v.v - so you use more fuel going up hill, faster, heavier car and sticking yer boot down
8:17 pm
ghewgley:
@Caro_lann That's what I mean. We have to cover so much that each area is sometimes briefly covered and quickly forgotten. #mathchat
8:18 pm
ColinTGraham:
@maths_teacher Are you ever tempted to skip parts and focus on strengthening the stuff your ss can do? what would you leave out? #mathchat
8:18 pm
ColinTGraham:
Example: being able to calculate value for money 3 for the price of 2 etc. #mathchat
8:18 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Biggest problem for adults returning to numeracy is fear/ lack of confidence/ half remembered rules/ poor previous teaching etc
8:19 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ColinTGraham Most of my work with adults has been getting them to overcome the terror of making mistakes #mathchat
8:19 pm
ghewgley:
@maths_teacher Right. Most people need more work on basics and applying simple math operations. #mathchat
8:19 pm
marketspi:
@ColinTGraham would generally leave out transformations when desperate! #mathchat
8:19 pm
ColinTGraham:
Dividing/sharing out the bill at a restaurant... give it to Colin, he teaches maths... #mathchat
8:19 pm
chris_1974:
@ColinTGraham @maths_teacher we all cherry pick topics, if bottom higher, or bottom foundation. all part of tchng to exam #mathchat
8:19 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham I am tempted yes. I often gloss over things and add in more times tables etc as starters so that they can grasp it #mathchat
8:20 pm
ColinTGraham:
@icecolbeveridge Mistakes generally or in specific areas where a mistake might have a big impact? #mathchat
8:20 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham I try to gear my instruction towards areas of relative weakness. #mathchat
8:20 pm
ColinTGraham:
@chris_1974 As if the exams themselves are fair... re my latest blog post! #mathchat
8:21 pm
mikemcsharry:
@ColinTGraham bill at restaurant - give it to colin - then clear off. no maths problems there #mathchat
8:21 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat With adults, I start with stats then do fractions with probability because there is a reason to do them then!
8:21 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ghewgley @Caro_lann I think reinforcement of previous material is often (usually?) overlooked in favour of covering new stuff #mathchat
8:21 pm
chris_1974:
@ColinTGraham a sad part of playing the game. #mathchat
8:21 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Measurements of success... what do Ss see as being successful at school - another topic for #mathchat in future maybe!
8:22 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ColinTGraham In general - it's often as if they're afraid of somehow breaking maths. #mathchat
8:22 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham things I would leave out: loci, sequences, ...#mathchat
8:22 pm
ghewgley:
@icecolbeveridge I agree. There is a lot to cover, and one must cover it all for the exam. Short term memory? #mathchat
8:23 pm
chris_1974:
@maths_teacher but aren't loci functional? Plan a garden, choose where to live? also hands on and accessible? #mathchat
8:23 pm
maths_teacher:
@chris_1974 And unfortunately we have to play the game... too much pressure #mathchat
8:23 pm
ColinTGraham:
@icecolbeveridge Mathphobia is one of the topics that always features on our weekly poll... #mathchat
8:24 pm
chris_1974:
@ColinTGraham @ghewgley measures of school success could be a whole #ukedchat! #mathchat
8:24 pm
ColinTGraham:
@chris_1974 But do they have to be taught as loci or wouldn't planning a garden be more fun...? #mathchat
8:24 pm
maths_teacher:
@chris_1974 Yes, but a lot of weaker students have lower motor skills, so get frustrated. I want them to enjoy maths! #mathchat
8:24 pm
chris_1974:
@maths_teacher and kids want to go to college and need 5 (with M/E) to get there. We owe it to them. #mathchat
8:24 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham It's not just mathsphobia. I'm looking at dyscalculia at the moment. #mathchat
8:25 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @rantingteacher: if somebody had shown me practical applications of maths I'd've "got it" - it was so abstract I couldn't cope! #mathchat
8:25 pm
chris_1974:
@ColinTGraham absoulutely, but then firm up language to ensure they can answer exam questions #playingthegame #mathchat
8:26 pm
maths_teacher:
@chris_1974 But do we owe it to them for them to not be able to do the Maths properly? #mathchat
8:26 pm
chris_1974:
@rantingteacher abstract is how I felt about english lit! #mathchat
8:26 pm
ColinTGraham:
@maths_teacher #dyscalculia certainly doesn't have the same body of research behind it as #dyslexia#mathchat
8:27 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat For most adults it's pretty much all reinforcing. Tchr mistake is thinking they have to teach everything. Assess what they know.
8:27 pm
ColinTGraham:
Are we remembering teaching methods here, when we talk about levels of abstraction, maybe moving on too quickly? #mathchat
8:27 pm
maths_teacher:
@chris_1974 is entering them for an exam because it has a lower passrate (edexcel vs AQA) doing them justice? #mathchat
8:28 pm
chris_1974:
@maths_teacher yes, they should be able to do it and understand it, but by May of y11 ... #mathchat
8:28 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @rantingteacher: eg who'd've known Pythagoras was useful in extending grids on an archaeological site! Not me until I had to! #mathchat
8:28 pm
maths_teacher:
@ColinTGraham I've just invested in some research to read.V interesting.needs to be talked about in schools #dyscalculia #dyslexia #mathchat
8:28 pm
ColinTGraham:
@rantingteacher Yes, and I'm sure that @caro_lann will tell you that geometry is useful for patchwork and quilting! ;-) #mathchat
8:29 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@maths_teacher @chris_1974 There's getting your C to jump through hoops, and there's giving people a basis for further study #mathchat
8:30 pm
chris_1974:
@maths_teacher I'm not ignoring youe question, btw, but its made me think (in a good way!). #mathchat
8:30 pm
chris_1974:
@icecolbeveridge absolutely. but if they need the C to jump through hoop to do something non maths related, is that a problem? #mathchat
8:31 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@chris_1974 I think so... but more with the hoop than anything else! #mathchat
8:31 pm
ColinTGraham:
If you missed it last Wednesday, check out Dan Meyer's session http://bit.ly/dfw38N about remakes #mathchat
8:32 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat See "Common Threads: Women, Mathematics and Work" by Mary Harris Interesting stuff
8:32 pm
maths_teacher:
@chris_1974 I feel torn. I have to get results, but want them to have the qualification they actually deserve! #mathchat
8:33 pm
ColinTGraham:
@rantingteacher No problem! Watch out for our "Why I hate maths" special in a month or so" #mathchat
8:33 pm
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann Do you have a link Carol? #mathchat
8:34 pm
chris_1974:
I really want to stay and #mathchat longer, but I've got 3 reasonably major ttable issues to fix by weds!
8:34 pm
onmejack:
I've got my first #dyscalculia student this year RT @maths_teacher: @ColinTGraham needs to be talked about #dyscalculia #dyslexia #mathchat
8:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @Caro_lann: For most adults it's pretty much all reinforcing... mistake is thinking you have to teach everything.... #mathchat
8:34 pm
chris_1974:
@maths_teacher thats the best way of describing it I've seen. Thankyou. On that note, I've got to go! #mathchat
8:34 pm
mritzius:
RT @21stcenturychem: Don't forget to vote for tomorrow's #scichat topic! #scichat #scido #edchat#mathchat #elemchat http://twtpoll.com/r/fy35aj
8:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
@chris_1974 OK Chris, archive will be online around 10:30 or so! #mathchat
8:35 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@chris_1974 Ooh, applied combinatorics! #mathchat
8:35 pm
maths_teacher:
@onmejack I think we have #dyscalculia students at school who aren't diagnosed. Want it recognised. #dyscalculia #dyslexia #mathchat
8:35 pm
ColinTGraham:
And matrices! RT @icecolbeveridge: @chris_1974 Ooh, applied combinatorics! #mathchat
8:36 pm
Caro_lann:
?@maths_teacher ..feel torn. have to get results, want them to have qualification they deserve" and the maths they need for life #mathchat
8:37 pm
ColinTGraham:
Should basic financial and accounting skills form part of the national curriculum of every country? #mathchat
8:38 pm
onmejack:
@maths_teacher indeed diagnosis of #dyscalculia is key. Awareness of condition is important and lacking #edchat #mathchat
8:38 pm
maths_teacher:
Sorry guys but I am going to have to go. I have really enjoyed the chat. #mathchat
8:38 pm
ghewgley:
There is so much math to cover that we are crowding out other subjects. That doesn't make well-rounded people. #mathchat
8:39 pm
ColinTGraham:
@maths_teacher Thanks for coming Liz, see you again! #mathchat
8:39 pm
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat http://www.gold.ac.uk/constance-howard/events-news/latest/common-threads/ Book available from amazon I think
8:39 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley So should maths teachers be visiting consultants for other subjects? #mathchat
8:41 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ghewgley I think there should be more cross-curriculum project learning rather than 'here is the syllabus, let's get through it' #mathchat
8:41 pm
ColinTGraham:
Do you think our maths programmes emphasize too much algebra at the expense of statistics? #mathchat
8:43 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Collaboration would be nice, but spending 20 class hours a week in math and 2 in music/art doesn't seem right. #mathchat
8:43 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Definitely! I hated stats at school - but it's one of the most useful things (how reliable is this survey?)
8:44 pm
ghewgley:
@icecolbeveridge Collaboration would be awesome, but you can't do it now - too much to cover and so little time. #mathchat
8:44 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Why does the 20 hours have to be spent in the Maths class though, could some of that not be apportioned out to other sbj #mathchat
8:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
What methods or approaches have to be considered when designing an adult curriculum? #mathchat
8:46 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Most of the maths I see "everyday" is stats in one form or another. It's the modern world!
8:46 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham In our school it's required - more is okay as well. Students go to art once and music once. #mathchat
8:48 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat In college it's generally the other way round. I hour of numeracy a week one of literacy, one of ICT on most vocational courses
8:49 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @rantingteacher: basic arithmetic, etc, I can do without thinking. My colleagues are stunned! Anything more & I want to cry! #mathchat
8:50 pm
ColinTGraham:
Balance of curriculum content seems to be an issue, as well as a balance in scheduling of lessons #mathchat
8:51 pm
ColinTGraham:
Do you think parents would benefit from knowing how to teach the basics of mathematics? #mathchat
8:53 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Definitely - and should be encouraged (nearly mandated) to take part.
8:53 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Parents should at least recognise topics and be able to talk to kids about maths in a positive way.
8:54 pm
CrewtonRamone:
Somebody want to explain to me how you do statistics without doing algebra? #mathchat@ColinTGraham
8:54 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham I wish my students' parents taught/reinforced basic math skills. #mathchat
8:54 pm
icecolbeveridge:
RT @Caro_lann: #mathchat Parents should at least recognise topics and be able to talk to kids about maths in a positive way.
8:55 pm
chris_1974:
@Caro_lann how many parents say "Oooh - they're well beyond what i can do". How do we change that? #mathchat
8:56 pm
ColinTGraham:
@CrewtonRamone Ah, now that is another topic! Logical reasoning can play a role though... or brute force calculation #mathchat
8:57 pm
chris_1974:
@CrewtonRamone @ColinTGraham you can do some basic descriptive stats w/out algebra, just! #mathchat
8:57 pm
Caro_lann:
@CrewtonRamone @colintgraham #mathchat Stop before you get to standard deviation! ( but go on if learners can cope!).
8:57 pm
ColinTGraham:
Are parents scared off by the abstractions, rather than the practicalities, or more of messing something up for their kids?...? #mathchat
8:57 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@CrewtonRamone To me, idea of a hypothesis test should be second nature, even if it's just lookup. #mathchat
8:58 pm
icecolbeveridge:
@chris_1974 #mathchat A lot of my students' parents wear lack of maths skills as badge of pride. Most depressing.
8:59 pm
ColinTGraham:
It's also easy to confuse probability with statistics because they are dependent on each other... @chris_1974 @CrewtonRamone #mathchat
8:59 pm
Caro_lann:
@chris_1974 #mathchat Tricky one. Could invite them into classes? Hope next generation of parents won't say it if we are teaching them now!
8:59 pm
ColinTGraham:
OK last two minutes, any final thoughts about mathematics for being a functional adult? #mathchat
8:59 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Most of my parents just don't know their math operations/concepts. #mathchat
9:00 pm
chris_1974:
@Caro_lann I want to get parents to do ALAN exams, possible learn alongside kids. #mathchat
9:01 pm
ColinTGraham:
Japan has learn to sing for young mothers to sing to babies, I'd like to see a similar thing for maths... #mathchat
9:01 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Keep on reviewing the basics and applying those basics to everyday life would be a big help. #mathchat
9:02 pm
ColinTGraham:
OK time's up again! Thanks everyone for another stimulating session. Don't forget to follow new people and @mathchat for updates! #mathchat
9:02 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham But what if it is a really horrid song? Where does the baby go then? #mathchat
9:02 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Functioning: critical eye for misleading stats, ability to estimate well, good, fast mental arithmetic, percentage. That'll do!
9:03 pm
speedingbot:
RT @KnikiDavies @Caro_lann I like working things out like "Would Usain Bolt set off a 20mph speed camera?" #mathchat I have a strange ...
9:03 pm
ColinTGraham:
LOL! RT @ghewgley: @ColinTGraham But what if it is a really horrid song? Where does the baby go then? #mathchat
9:04 pm
icecolbeveridge:
RT @Caro_lann: #mathchat Functioning: critical eye for misleading stats, ability to estimate well, good, fast mental arithmetic, percentage. That'll do!
9:04 pm
ColinTGraham:
Feel free to carry on chatting, if you like but we are officially finished now! Archive will be online in about 30 minutes... #mathchat
9:06 pm
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Interesting stuff tonight. Food for thought! See you all next week.
9:08 pm
icecolbeveridge:
#mathchat Can I be slightly spammy and point out that I'm giving away 30min skype maths classes this week? Any level, any time.
9:09 pm
ghewgley:
Thanks everyone for another great #mathchat
9:11 pm
ColinTGraham:
@icecolbeveridge Not spammy, just give a link so people know where to get in touch with you! #mathchat