Topic: How do we assess whether or not mathematical concepts have been grasped and understood?
As it happened on Thursday, 12th August 2010, 23:30 - 00:30 GMT
11:31 pm
ColinTGraham:
Hello everyone, welcome to this week's #mathchat
11:32 pm
ColinTGraham:
Tonight's topic:"How do we assess whether or not mathematical concepts have been grasped and understood?" #mathchat
11:33 pm
cybraryman1:
RT @Saskateach: RT @ccampbel14: -15 min RT @mathchat: #mathchat: Prep: http://bit.ly/a7h7AeTime: http://bit.ly/921SHe
11:33 pm
ghewgley:
I love the topic. #mathchat
11:33 pm
ColinTGraham:
If you are a newcomer, try to focus on one or two tweets that are interesting and interact with those people! #mathchat
11:34 pm
ghewgley:
This is so important as it's hard to move on if the student(s) doesn't understand the concepts. #mathchat
11:35 pm
Saskateach:
Assessment has to come from many sources, coversations, observations and products. #mathchat
11:35 pm
mthman:
How many different opportunities are students provided to demonstrate mastery? #mathchat
11:35 pm
ColinTGraham:
This is quite a general issue - assessment! Let's try to focus on assessing mathematical stuff...! And assessing understanding! #mathchat
11:35 pm
mthman:
Absolutely! RT @Saskateach: Assessment has to come from many sources, coversations, observations and products. #mathchat
11:35 pm
ghewgley:
@Saskateach And assessments need to be done at the very beginning of the year. #mathchat
11:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
OK, let's start by itemizing the types of assessment we could use, whether or not we do! #mathchat
11:37 pm
ghewgley:
I want to know where my students are mathematically. #mathchat
11:37 pm
ColinTGraham:
For example: RT @Saskateach: Assessment has to come from many sources, conversations, observations and products. #mathchat
11:37 pm
mthman:
How do STUDENTS assess themselves in a math class? Do they truly understand when they are making progress? #mathchat
11:37 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat I like to give a very similar prob as pre-assessment & post-assessment then compare progress HOWEVER
11:38 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat I feel like the comparison is not so valid b/c the post-assessment can lack the novelty of the 1st time they see the prob
11:38 pm
ghewgley:
I start off with standardized assessments (MAP) as well as grade level assessments. #mathchat
11:39 pm
Saskateach:
In math assessment can't just b based on products...paper & pencil. Conversations , models, representations, all should count 2 #mathchat
11:39 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ghewgley #mathchat I am not familiar w/MAP. May I ask what that is?
11:39 pm
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham Are you asking for the specifics with regard to summative & formative assessment? #mathchat
11:39 pm
ColinTGraham:
Does assessment = test? Written/Oral? 1-to-1? #mathchat
11:39 pm
Mollybmom:
RT @mthman: How do STUDENTS assess themselves in a math class? They truly understand when they can use in an everyday situation #mathchat
11:39 pm
ghewgley:
@MmeVeilleux They shouldn't be seeing the same exact problems. #mathchat
11:39 pm
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux I have the same issue w/pre & post assessments...can you give open-ended questions as a pre-assessment? #mathchat
11:40 pm
tonnet:
RT @mthman: @MmeVeilleux I have the same issue w/pre & post assessments...can you give open-ended questions as a pre-assessment? #mathchat
11:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 Not just formative vs. summative but: video, demonstrations, groupwork.... #mathchat
11:41 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman #mathchat I tend to give open ended Qs as pre-assessment b/c I want my assessment to look similar to instruction. Make sense?
11:41 pm
ccampbel14:
Just like @Saskateach said, I think looking at products, making observations & having conversations are all important. #mathchat
11:41 pm
ghewgley:
@MmeVeilleux It's a set of computerized (based on standards) tests that are given to the students. It determines level. #mathchat
11:41 pm
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux ...explain order of operations, give me three examples w/this criteria...etc. #mathchat
11:41 pm
Saskateach:
@mthman I think students can self assess when they have a models to compare to & know criteria. We need to keep bar visible #mathchat
11:41 pm
ghewgley:
@MmeVeilleux Here is the link http://www.nwea.org/ #mathchat
11:42 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman #mathchat Of course it depends on context. Telling time is sthg more closed than say, bldg fence around an area (open)
11:42 pm
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux Absolutely... #mathchat
11:42 pm
ColinTGraham:
Pre- and post- are summative forms of assessment, would everyone agree? If so, what formative assessments do you use? #mathchat
11:43 pm
Mollybmom:
I think when students can apply learning 2 real life context or other subject areas they r demonstrating true understanding. #mathchat
11:43 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ghewgley #mathchat TY! I will look at it more closely after the chat :)
11:43 pm
drtimony:
Yes! Clear scoring plan and use 2nd scorer. RT @mthman: @MmeVeilleux can you give open-ended questions as a pre-assessment? #mathchat
11:43 pm
ghewgley:
@Saskateach The MAP assessments results are very visual, and I go over the results - plus a plan with each student. #mathchat
11:43 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @Saskateach I think students can self assess when they have a model to compare to & know criteria. We need to keep bar visible #mathchat
11:44 pm
ccampbel14:
I agree that students cn assess themselves & each other of they have the crtierai. Students must B able 2 understand the criteria. #mathchat
11:44 pm
mthman:
This year I plan to write observations of every student at least once per week...something I can share w/them & parents! #mathchat
11:44 pm
Saskateach:
Teachers need to become comfortable w/ how students learn math. Makes assess more authentic and valuable for student & teacher #mathchat
11:44 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat At the end of one math class, I had my Gr2/3s share all they knew about fractions as verbal exit slip (formative assessment) & 1/2
11:44 pm
ColinTGraham:
Links and so on will be separately listed in the archive. Don't worry about checking them now! #mathchat
11:44 pm
ghewgley:
I also give formative assessments at the beginning of the year. Students know the results and we plan together. #mathchat
11:44 pm
Waukeestudent:
RT @mthman: This year I plan to write observations of every student at least once per week...something I can share w/them & parents! #mathchat
11:45 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat 2/2 whole class was nodding as Ss gave nonsense answers!! I knew I had to re-teach the next day.
11:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
Does anyone use a 'can-do' or portfolio approach to assessing mathematics? #mathchat
11:45 pm
ghewgley:
@mthman We have to send home weekly reports so this is done each week in our classes. #mathchat
11:45 pm
ccampbel14:
@mthman I find sticky notes the best 4 observations. I pile them on my desk & at the end of the day sort them into student files. #mathchat
11:45 pm
mthman:
I also plan to give simple spot quizzes (1-2 questions)...have Ss grade them...immediate feedback for them...some for me! #mathchat
11:45 pm
Saskateach:
@MmeVeilleux Love exit slip. I find you can also learn a lot from students journals...get a window into their thinking. #mathchat
11:46 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat I set up my math grade bk so that there are a few columns for each concept & once a stu gets 4/4, then I stop assessing on that...
11:46 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat particular concept. So all their marks show concept by concept their level of understanding. Always out of 4.
11:46 pm
ccampbel14:
I have also tried using lists of outcomes on a clipboard for each class but I found that hard. Post-it notes worked better for me #mathchat
11:46 pm
Mollybmom:
@ColinTGraham Journals r a gr8 way 4 students 2 connect 2 their learning...helps 2 c progression as well. #mathchat
11:46 pm
ghewgley:
@MmeVeilleux The MAP scores are also reported back immediately, graphs available the next day. #mathchat
11:47 pm
mthman:
Exactly! RT @ccampbel14 Sticky notes R best 4 observations. Pile them on my desk & sort them into student files #mathchat
11:47 pm
soingirl:
Wondering how many people use math journals? I haven't but would like to this year. #mathchat
11:47 pm
Saskateach:
@Akevy613 So true & only paper & pencil assessments don't add validity 2 our focus on understanding, collaboration, manips #mathchat
11:48 pm
ColinTGraham:
Do students know what levels or standards are specified in the state/provinicial/national curriculum and where they are personally #mathchat
11:48 pm
ghewgley:
Sticky notes, quizzes, and math problem competitions are all ways to gain valuable student info. #mathchat
11:48 pm
mthman:
@ghewgley The problem I have with progress reports is too often they give only gradebook information, few comments, explanations! #mathchat
11:48 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman @ccampbell14 #mathchat What kinds of things do U write on yr sticky notes?
11:48 pm
mthman:
@ghewgley I like more personalized comments...more descriptive feedback #mathchat
11:49 pm
ccampbel14:
Now I realize that students shld choose wht they put in their portfolios, their best work, in specific areas. Easier 2 organize #mathchat
11:49 pm
ghewgley:
@mthman Our weekly reports are all written narratives, no grades. #mathchat
11:49 pm
soingirl:
I like sticky notes too. I would like to come up with something online to transfer these observations to. Any suggestions? #mathchat
11:49 pm
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux All kinds of things...effort, attitude, comments, breakthroughs, questions, insights, f2f dialogue #mathchat
11:49 pm
Mollybmom:
RT @mthman: @ghewgley I like more personalized comments...more descriptive feedback #mathchat
11:50 pm
ColinTGraham:
Do parents understand progress reports? Do they know where their child should be or what he/she is expected to be able to do? #mathchat
11:50 pm
mthman:
RT @Woot! Anyone else going gradeless? ghewgley: @mthman Our weekly reports are all written narratives, no grades. #mathchat
11:50 pm
Saskateach:
I keep a grid with students names in it and outcomes on side. Helps me assess & note learning. Also good for planning #mathchat
11:50 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ccampbel14 #mathchat The assessment 'gold' for me is finding 2 pieces of work by same stu: 1 B4 & 1 after lrning concept2show dif.
11:50 pm
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham With the MAP test in my class, yes the students know the standards and know where they are - we plan where to go. #mathchat
11:50 pm
mthman:
Anyone using a Standards Based Grading (SBG) approach to assessment/grading? #mathchat
11:51 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat We do not use the term progress reports here but rather report cards & they rarely show progress.
11:51 pm
ccampbel14:
Sticky notes - observations about: concepts mastered/independently.../with support.../takes risks.../great comments& ?s/+attitude/ #mathchat
11:51 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat My criticism of a lot of report cards is that there is a grade + work habits or attitude comment.
11:52 pm
ghewgley:
My students are great with one-step problems. Add two steps and it really throws them off. #mathchat
11:52 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman @Woot #mathchat Primary (K-3) schools in BC (Cda) are all anecdotal (no grades until Grade 4).
11:52 pm
ccampbel14:
@MmeVeilleux You don't find it too hard keeping track of 1 pre&post assessment on ever concept for every student? #mathchat
11:52 pm
Saskateach:
@ColinTGraham I don't think parents have a good enough idea of what standards are #mathchat
11:52 pm
ColinTGraham:
I think any 'grade' that has to be assigned could be set out as a 'can-do' objective statement... like EU uses for languages #mathchat
11:53 pm
mthman:
Hard to balance everything I want to accomplish each week...observations, assessments, group problem solving, learning stations... #mathchat
11:53 pm
ghewgley:
@MmeVeilleux We have to write a one page plus narrative on grades. #mathchat
11:53 pm
ColinTGraham:
UK govt publishes guidance! RT @Saskateach: @ColinTGraham I don't think parents have a good enough idea of what standards are #mathchat
11:53 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman #mathchat The other thing I do is I will walk around with a bank of Qs & record (numerically) quality of answers. I struggle..
11:53 pm
ccampbel14:
@sapereaude Right now!-join us. We're taking about how we assess whether or not mathematical concepts have been grasped/assessment #mathchat
11:54 pm
ghewgley:
@mthman Amen to the balance issue! #mathchat
11:54 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman #mathchat with what 2do with PostIts and find I cannot organize them afterward b/c I was inconsistent.
11:54 pm
ccampbel14:
I agree. Usually it's educat. language RT @Saskateach: @ColinTGraham I dont think parents have a gd enough idea of wht standards R #mathchat
11:54 pm
ghewgley:
Anyone else develop a learning plan for each student? #mathchat
11:55 pm
ColinTGraham:
Let's shift from grading and assessments if we may... How do you as a teacher assess the difference between apply & understand... #mathchat
11:55 pm
DoremiGirl:
RT @sapereaude: When does #mathchat take place? @ColinTGraham can answer that for you
11:55 pm
soingirl:
@mthman: totally agree with there not being enough time to accomplish everything! #mathchat
11:55 pm
ColinTGraham:
I try to get my Ss to develop their own! but they are older... RT @ghewgley: Anyone else develop a learning plan for each student? #mathchat
11:56 pm
Saskateach:
@ghewgley Problem solving is challenging for many students. Need to model, model, model #mathchat
11:56 pm
mthman:
@ghewgley Sounds like they need to hear what problem solving sounds like...questions, lots of them...failure, learning from it... #mathchat
11:56 pm
ColinTGraham:
@DoremiGirl @sapereaude it is half-way through now, come and join us! #mathchat
11:56 pm
soingirl:
RT @ghewgley: @MmeVeilleux We have to write a one page plus narrative on grades. #mathchatSounds very time consuming?
11:57 pm
ccampbel14:
@mthman Balance is tough! Products&observations 4 every student. Usually conversations 4 students I dont have enough info abt. #mathchat
11:57 pm
Saskateach:
@ColinTGraham Communication writing, speaking are great ways to assess understanding over application. #mathchat
11:57 pm
ghewgley:
@mthman They struggle with with problem solving. Being ELL and SPED doesn't help. #mathchat
11:57 pm
mthman:
Lost my internet connection....ugh... #mathchat
11:58 pm
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Gr8 Q! What IS the dif btw apply & understand? Ucan apply formula w/out understanding I guess.
11:59 pm
ghewgley:
I try to use projects for application. They love projects and try very hard when we do them. #mathchat
11:59 pm
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux I agree...hard to get around...plan to get to one group per day (5-8 Ss)...go from there... #mathchat
11:59 pm
ccampbel14:
@ghewgley ITried making learning plans for individual students but was unsuccessful. Made group plans (kids didn't know) instead. #mathchat
11:59 pm
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Coming up w/a new way to explain a solution shows understanding.
11:59 pm
ColinTGraham:
@sapereaude We also do a follow-up of the Thursday topic on a Monday. Check the Wiki:http://bit.ly/a4ErRx and follow @mathchat #mathchat

12:00 am
Saskateach:
I also find assessing the transfer of skills 2 another situations/ problem allows me 2 really see if students have understanding. #mathchat
12:00 am
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Applying knowledge in new context = transfer (the goal) but dispositions (perseverance, etc) R also the goal
12:00 am
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux My spiral notebook has a page for every student (alpha by period)...stick the note on Ss page #mathchat
12:01 am
ColinTGraham:
Application in new situations is key, I think. New situations does not mean same problem with different numbers though... #mathchat
12:01 am
ccampbel14:
Applying means student can 'do the math' but cannot explain how they did it or extend. Explanation/teaching to other=understanding #mathchat
12:01 am
ghewgley:
Making that leap from understanding to application is a tough one for my students. It requires a lot more critical thinking #mathchat
12:01 am
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman #mathchat This is a bit generic but I also try to have 4&3s help 2s and then I help 1s in sm group which isYI like 4pt scale.
12:01 am
MmeVeilleux:
RT @mthman: @MmeVeilleux My spiral notebook has a page for every student (alpha by period)...stick the note on Ss page #mathchat
12:01 am
MmeVeilleux:
@mthman #mathchat That is a gr8 organizational tip.
12:02 am
mthman:
@ghewgley Gotcha...I think a good (sustained) discussion about failure & questioning will help you overcome some of that #mathchat
12:02 am
ccampbel14:
@mthman Students p-s when they are motivated. If their iPod isn't working they find out how to fix it. Need to transfer to math #mathchat
12:02 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 explanation is fine so long as it is not just explaining how to apply... #mathchat
12:02 am
MmeVeilleux:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat That is a gd clarification of application vs regurgitating formula w/dif #s
12:02 am
Caro_lann:
#mathchat Asking students to write a question that tests knowledge can show whether they understand concept
12:02 am
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux So do you have your desks in quads? Then heterogeneously grouped? #mathchat
12:03 am
Saskateach:
Performance assessments assess the authentic use of mathematics in a situation . Always my goal to have students preform #mathchat
12:03 am
relativism:
#mathchat apply & understand: young pupils assess through peer discussion & learning, explaining helps them understand their own thinking
12:03 am
mthman:
@MmeVeilleux Our district provided Kagan training for all math & science teachers last year...do you group that way? #mathchat
12:04 am
Saskateach:
Asking students to teach someone else a concept can also assess their understanding. #mathchat
12:04 am
mthman:
@ccampbel14 Exactly...that why we need to give them authentic problems to solve whenever possible... #mathchat
12:04 am
ColinTGraham:
I have to say I am playing Devil's Advocate, because I think a large number of maths teachers don't understand some concepts...! #mathchat
12:04 am
soltauheller:
@mthman I was just learning about Kagan - I do like the grouping ideas! #mathchat
12:05 am
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham I'm not sure you can explain how to apply. It's like explaining how to write a musical. #mathchat
12:05 am
ccampbel14:
I ask students 2 create their own ?s around some math concepts. This gives me a lot of feedback about their level of understanding #mathchat
12:05 am
soltauheller:
are we talking about how students show what they learn? #mathchat
12:05 am
mthman:
@Saskateach I am thinking of having Ss organize a lesson on basic skills that they should have mastered already... #mathchat
12:06 am
soltauheller:
@ColinTGraham and that is why I teach gr1!!!! #mathchat
12:06 am
ghewgley:
I think you have to model, and think aloud a lot - scaffolding. #mathchat
12:06 am
ColinTGraham:
Knowing how to apply vs knowing when to apply, for me shows a leap or step forward in understanding #mathchat
12:06 am
ccampbel14:
I;d love 2 assess students with performance tasks everyday, ike science labs-hands-on & authentic. Hard to do for some concepts #mathchat
12:07 am
ColinTGraham:
More what their understanding or grasp is... RT @soltauheller: are we talking about how students show what they learn? #mathchat
12:07 am
Saskateach:
Awesome RT @mthman: @Saskateach I'm thinking of having Ss organize lesson on basic skills that they should have mastered already. #mathchat
12:07 am
mthman:
@Saskateach This would be a beginning of the year project...teach me about fractions, order of operations, probability, etc. #mathchat
12:07 am
Saskateach:
RT @ColinTGraham: Knowing how to apply vs knowing when to apply, for me shows a leap or step forward in understanding #mathchat
12:07 am
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham I agree that some teachers don't really understand the math they teach. It's what they did in school, but not deep #mathchat
12:07 am
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Knowing how to apply is not application. Knowing when is part of application. #mathchat
12:08 am
Saskateach:
RT @ColinTGraham: More what their understanding or grasp is... RT @soltauheller: are we talking about how students show what they learn? #mathchat
12:08 am
mthman:
What do you do after an assessment? This is an important teachable moment...how do you handle it? #mathchat
12:08 am
mthman:
@soltauheller Love the structures too? #mathchat
12:08 am
ColinTGraham:
Yes, I like this too RT @Caro_lann: #mathchat Ask students to write a question that tests knowledge & shows whether they understand concept
12:09 am
ccampbel14:
@ghewgley I think some students really 'get it' but struggle with the explanation. If I ask them to 'show' me, it works better #mathchat
12:09 am
ghewgley:
@ccampbel14 I also agree that a lot of teachers don't know their math and have no idea what to do with the math they know. #mathchat
12:09 am
soltauheller:
@mthman evaluate after assessment #mathchat
12:09 am
ColinTGraham:
Do you always tell students when you are assessing them, and what you are assessing them on? #mathchat
12:09 am
soltauheller:
@mthman strutures of Gr1? you mean? #mathchat
12:09 am
Saskateach:
@mthman I love this idea. Also allows students to discuss how they represent math and ideas. Great to create common lang #mathchat
12:10 am
ghewgley:
@ccampbel14 Absolutely. Show me is what you want right? It's all about the process. #mathchat
12:10 am
mthman:
Do you allow those that mastered skills provide insight to those who didn't? #mathchat
12:10 am
ColinTGraham:
How is evaluation different from assessing? RT @soltauheller: @mthman evaluate after assessment #mathchat
12:10 am
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat As a teacher trainer I agree that teachers sometimes don't seem to be secure in some concepts. So rely on tests etc
12:10 am
mthman:
@soltauheller Sorry...didn't come out right...I love the structures, games, activities...some too generic! #mathchat
12:10 am
math2go:
@ColinTGraham If you ask students to aim at a mystery target, how is that fair? How does it make educational sense? #mathchat
12:11 am
soltauheller:
@mthman maybe if those who don't understand can handle it? delicate situation sometimes #mathchat
12:11 am
ccampbel14:
Teachers can help students is by improving their own understanding. Begins with a person saying they need support - Big challenge #mathchat
12:11 am
mthman:
@ColinTGraham Think: self-reflection! #mathchat
12:11 am
Saskateach:
Yes !!!RT @mthman: Do you allow those that mastered skills provide insight to those who didn't? #mathchat
12:11 am
soltauheller:
@ColinTGraham the assessment is the tool - the evaluation is the judgement #mathchat
12:11 am
mthman:
@soltauheller Not talking about giving them the stage as the know-it-all, but general insights...thoughts about the problem #mathchat
12:12 am
math2go:
@ccampbel14 show me or tell me can work much better with students who struggle with writing! #mathchat
12:12 am
ccampbel14:
@mthman When you ask students (who got it) what they did, thought, etc & they share with classmates it helps everyone in the class #mathchat
12:12 am
soltauheller:
@mthman again great idea depending on studens #mathchat
12:12 am
ghewgley:
Evaluate is what you do with the assessment - right? #mathchat
12:13 am
ccampbel14:
Like this summary RT @soltauheller: @ColinTGraham the assessment is the tool - the evaluation is the judgement #mathchat
12:13 am
ghewgley:
Boy, these are some thought provoking questions. Aspirin? #mathchat
12:13 am
mthman:
I set up a curtain in my room (w/a flip camera) in one corner for students to self-reflect via video... #mathchat
12:13 am
ColinTGraham:
I always assess students... I think. Not grades, tho' RT @math2go: If you ask students to aim at a mystery target, is that fair? #mathchat
12:14 am
MmeVeilleux:
#mathchat Hope to catch archive. Must take kids2park.
12:14 am
soingirl:
@mthman I find that other students are sometimes the best teachers/coaches. I definitely want them sharing with each other. #mathchat
12:14 am
soltauheller:
@mthman have seen teachers video their lessons and have students reflect on their part as homework -sounds powerful #mathchat
12:15 am
ghewgley:
@mthman I'm thinking Wizard of Oz right now. Pay no attention to the man... #mathchat
12:15 am
mthman:
@soltauheller True...so perhaps you intentionally group students and you lead a group of Ss who may not take the info via other Ss #mathchat
12:15 am
ccampbel14:
Used 2 begin class with "By the end of class you will be able to..." Now I construct an experience & then explain, "Today you..." #mathchat
12:15 am
ColinTGraham:
For me evaluate = give a number/value to. I prefer to use a criterion-based system... yes/no #mathchat
12:15 am
ghewgley:
I strongly believe that we as math teachers must evaluate the data we are getting, and do something with it. #mathchat
12:16 am
Maridougc:
RT @mthman: @MmeVeilleux I have the same issue w/pre & post assessments...can you give open-ended questions as a pre-assessment? #mathchat
12:16 am
mthman:
Anyone use a ning to extend the class...ask students to comment...start comments? #mathchat
12:16 am
soltauheller:
@mthman grouping can be so important and often I don't give enough thought to it #mathchat
12:16 am
ColinTGraham:
Do we need to understand concepts ourselves to be able to teach them effectively or can we 'get away with' knowing when to apply? #mathchat
12:16 am
Caro_lann:
#mathchat I assess all the time informally. Helps me plan next lesson. I also use self/peer assessment. I don't have to grade.
12:17 am
ccampbel14:
When we begin units, though, I give students the outcomes & then they can keep track of how they are doing over the unit #mathchat
12:17 am
soltauheller:
@ccampbel14 although I think sometimes you do need to tell children what they are looking to be able to do #mathchat
12:17 am
ghewgley:
@mthman Open ended questions may give insight as to how student thinks. Powerful data. #mathchat
12:17 am
mthman:
@soltauheller I am going to try something different this year...4 groups, 3 will work independently while I work with 4th group #mathchat
12:17 am
ColinTGraham:
@mthman Steve (@Year7Numeracy) has a class-blog where students ask for help and help each other with maths and science ?ns #mathchat
12:18 am
soltauheller:
@mthman will be interesting - as long as some don't feel like "bluebirds" and "crows" #mathchat
12:18 am
ghewgley:
@soltauheller You are right. We need lots, and lots more modeling. We can't expect students to read our minds. #mathchat
12:19 am
mthman:
@soltauheller Classroom transparency? Post the video in a ning...get parents involved, asked to comment? #mathchat
12:19 am
soltauheller:
@mthman you will circulate... duhh - ignore last comment! #mathchat
12:19 am
ccampbel14:
@ghewgley That's a very challenging thing.- getting data about what the students are able/not able to do & then adjusting teaching #mathchat
12:19 am
soingirl:
RT @mthman: @soltauheller I am going to try something different this year...4 groups, 3 will work independently while I work with 4th group #mathchat
12:19 am
Caro_lann:
@ColinTGraham #mathchat Depends on whether we are "teaching to the test" or developing understanding. Sometimes there is conflict.
12:20 am
soltauheller:
@mthman wow! That could be VERY powerful in soooo many ways #mathchat
12:20 am
math2go:
If you give students the target, the achievement will be higher. #mathchat
12:20 am
ghewgley:
@ccampbel14 You see how they work out the problems and ask what they were thinking. It's a great system. #mathchat
12:20 am
ccampbel14:
@soltauheller Yes, you are right. A mix and match approach would be good. #mathchat
12:20 am
soingirl:
@mthman What grade are your students? Would like to find out more about the grouping you will do this year. #mathchat
12:21 am
soltauheller:
@math2go how do you mean target? #mathchat
12:21 am
mthman:
@soltauheller Agreed...I think it can defuse some math anxiety if I can sort them/handle them well... #mathchat
12:21 am
soltauheller:
#mathchat
12:21 am
ColinTGraham:
Or Ss will have some idea of where they are going... RT @math2go: If you give students the target, the achievement will be higher. #mathchat
12:21 am
mthman:
@soingirl I am teaching 7th grade math and 8th grade algebra (advanced Ss) #mathchat
12:22 am
ghewgley:
@math2go I totally agree. The students need a target/goal. You gotta know where you're going if you travel. #mathchat
12:22 am
Caro_lann:
#mathchat I feel there is a difference between assessment (verb) and "an assessment" which I think means a test?
12:22 am
soltauheller:
@math2go what do you mean target? #mathchat
12:22 am
math2go:
@Caro_lann if you are developing both conceptual understanding and skill/process fluency, thre is no conflict #mathchat
12:22 am
ccampbel14:
Coloured cups on desks: If a student has a gr. cup showing they are good , yell. = will need help soon, red means help me now! #mathchat
12:23 am
soltauheller:
@Caro_lann I have always thought of assessment as the gathering of data and ev. the judgement #mathchat
12:23 am
math2go:
@soltauheller target - what you want the students to know and be able to do. #mathchat
12:23 am
Saskateach:
RT @math2go: @Caro_lann if you are developing both conceptual understanding and skill/process fluency, thre is no conflict #mathchat
12:23 am
math2go:
RT @ccampbel14: Coloured cups on desks: If a student has a gr. cup showing they are good , yell. = will need help soon, red means help me now! #mathchat
12:23 am
ColinTGraham:
@Caro_lann For me assessment means deciding where you think someone is at a particular point. Verb or noun! #mathchat
12:24 am
soltauheller:
@math2go this is so important, sometimes I think some kids are totally lost as 2 what concept I am teaching #mathchat
12:24 am
mthman:
After an initial assessment, how many different ways do you give your students to re-assess? #mathchat
12:24 am
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham I agree with you def of assessment. #mathchat
12:25 am
mthman:
Do you give a different version of the same quiz, a worksheet, 5 problems on the board, a Q&A session w/you? #mathchat
12:25 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 I have also use a traffic light system: Red=don't want any help, Yellow= only can teacher help, Green=anyone can help #mathchat
12:25 am
ccampbel14:
I think that if we teach math with the emphasis on process skills (NCTM standards) Ss will be able 2 do well on formal assessments #mathchat
12:25 am
Caro_lann:
@math2go #mathchat Absolutely agree. Problem comes when teachers don't have conceptual understanding and have to teach mechanically
12:26 am
math2go:
@mthman is it all about content mastery? If so, as many ways as possible! #mathchat
12:26 am
soltauheller:
@mthman I teach gr1 - we use these basic consepts over and over - our curric was just simplified so WAY fewer outcomes #mathchat
12:26 am
ghewgley:
@mthman Depends upon the results and how confident I am about them. #mathchat
12:26 am
mthman:
RT Tell me more! RT @ColinTGraham: @ccampbel14 I have also use a traffic light system: Red, Yellow, Gree #mathchat
12:27 am
soltauheller:
hopefully less content=more basic number sense #mathchat
12:27 am
ghewgley:
@math2go You're right - you do whatever it takes. #mathchat
12:27 am
ColinTGraham:
OK, in the last five minutes... any thoughts about assessments - whether tests or otherwise - and what we do after assessment... #mathchat
12:27 am
ccampbel14:
@mthman As many ways as possible but make notes 4 reporting later what you notice. Hard for a teacher, lots of extra work for us #mathchat
12:27 am
ColinTGraham:
#mathchat
12:27 am
mthman:
Yes! RT @math2go: @mthman is it all about content mastery? If so, as many ways as possible! #mathchat
12:28 am
Saskateach:
@ccampbel14 Think processes are key. They are the how of math and go beyond indiv concepts #mathchat
12:28 am
cybraryman1:
Some Math Assessment sites: http://bit.ly/1PAeOz #mathchat
12:28 am
soltauheller:
@ColinTGraham teach! - sorry :) #mathchat
12:28 am
ColinTGraham:
@mthman When students are working, they decide what help they want/need and put a counter in front of them... red=stay away...etc. #mathchat
12:28 am
ccampbel14:
A note on math terminology - If Ss can memorize names of dinosaurs when they are 5 they can learn correct math terms! #mathchat
12:29 am
math2go:
@Caro_lann sad, but true. many teachers don't know where concept is heading, so can't help students understand it #mathchat
12:29 am
Year7Numeracy:
@ccampbel14 The more data you have the better the accuracy of your assessments. U need to find assess tools that work for you #mathchat
12:29 am
vickyloras:
RT @cybraryman1 Some Math Assessment sites: http://bit.ly/1PAeOz #mathchat
12:29 am
ghewgley:
What about post assessments? How important are they to you and your students? #mathchat
12:29 am
soltauheller:
@ccampbel14 :) #mathchat
12:29 am
mthman:
@ColinTGraham How frequently do you have them use Red, Yellow, Green? #mathchat
12:30 am
ccampbel14:
@Saskateach I am beginning to think that the process skills is the 'content' & the outcomes are the contexts. Similar to English. #mathchat
12:30 am
Saskateach:
Absolutely RT @ccampbel14: math terms - If Ss can memorize names of dinosaurs when they are 5 they can learn correct math terms! #mathchat
12:30 am
ColinTGraham:
OK, looks like that time again, folks! Don't forget to follow new people. Follow @mathchat to keep up on changes to the Wiki. #mathchat
12:31 am
ghewgley:
In some ways. I feel post assessments are just as important as pre-assessments. #mathchat
12:31 am
Caro_lann:
RT @ccampbel14: ...if we teach math with emphasis on process skills... Ss will be able 2 do well on formal assessments <-yes! #mathchat
12:31 am
ColinTGraham:
The archive from tonight will go online in about 30 minutes or so, but feel free to keep chatting! #mathchat
12:31 am
soltauheller:
@ColinTGraham that you for the interesting chat and moderating! #mathchat
12:32 am
Saskateach:
@ccampbel14 Ohh interesting. I like your wording on this . Makes processes seem so important #mathchat
12:32 am
ccampbel14:
Can't believe that an hour has passed.! Thanks everyone for the great discussion. This is such a challenging topic for teachers. #mathchat
12:32 am
soltauheller:
as always, I take away several things to think about!! #mathchat
12:32 am
ColinTGraham:
@mthman Every time where they are working, unless it's a "by yourself" time. New concepts/ideas it's particularly useful #mathchat
12:33 am
ColinTGraham:
Remember we revisit the topic on Mondays too, so reflect, cogitate and come back to revisit! #mathchat
12:33 am
mthman:
@ColinTGraham Love it...I will steal that idea for my room! Thanks! #mathchat
12:33 am
ccampbel14:
@Saskateach I heard something like this from Peter Liljedahl, UBC, & I think I agree. Just working through this to make it my own. #mathchat
12:33 am
ghewgley:
@Qwine I agree. Reflections for the student, as well as reflections for the teacher. #mathchat
12:34 am
ColinTGraham:
If you have ideas or questions/topics you would like to see on future discussions, DM me or post it on the Wallwisher #mathchat
12:34 am
ghewgley:
Thanks everyone! Lots to think about. #mathchat
12:35 am
mthman:
Thank-you for a terrific discussion! @ColinTGraham @ccampbel14 @ghewgley @soltauheller@soingirl @math2go @Saskateach @MmeVeilleux #mathchat
12:35 am
ColinTGraham:
Mathchat - Ideas for discussion on the #mathchat tag http://bit.ly/ahZSWB
12:36 am
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham Thanks 4 all your work moderating this #mathchat. I'm worried that I won't be able 2 participate regularly once back work :-(
12:36 am
ColinTGraham:
Thank you everyone. Clearly a popular topic, I'm sure we'll come back to it again! (Apart from on Monday...) #mathchat
12:37 am
Saskateach:
@ccampbel14 I've heard Peter speak good. Ur comment has sent me to my Process books from NCTM Need to wrap my head around this #mathchat
12:37 am
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Excellent job and thanks for the info! #mathchat
12:37 am
math2go:
RT @ccampbel14: @ColinTGraham Thanks 4 all your work moderating this #mathchat.
12:37 am
ghewgley:
I'm lucky, we have Fridays off. #mathchat
12:38 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 Oh dear... Maybe start using the Wiki discussion forum or the hashtag outside 'official' times. Word is spreading... #mathchat
12:38 am
Saskateach:
@ColinTGraham Thanks for #mathchat Always so much to learn. I appreciate all of the work you do to make this opportunity possible. :)
12:38 am
math2go:
RT @mthman: Thank-you for a terrific discussion! @ColinTGraham @ccampbel14 @ghewgley@soltauheller @soingirl @math2go @Saskateach @MmeVeilleux #mathchat
12:38 am
ccampbel14:
@Saskateach This is 1 area I thought I could explore this summer & really develop it but haven't yet Will have to be on-the-job #mathchat
12:39 am
ccampbel14:
@ghewgley Everyone has Friday's off? Do you work longer days to get a 4-day work week? #mathchat
12:39 am
Saskateach:
That's everyone for a great #mathchat Like always I learn so much from everyone. Can't wait for archive to see what I missed.
12:39 am
missb27:
RT @relativism: #mathchat apply & understand: young pupils assess through peer discussion & learning, explaining helps them understand their own thinking
12:40 am
ghewgley:
@ccampbel14 We have school from Sunday to Thursday. I'm at an American School in Egypt. #mathchat
12:40 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 No-one wants to be taught Mathematics on a Friday... especially in the afternoon if you're 15 years old! #mathchat
12:41 am
Saskateach:
@ccampbel14 I've spent some time with this this summer. Reading some of Math Process Standards Series right now. #mathchat
12:41 am
ghewgley:
@relativism Explaining also helps the students to see what they know/don't know. #mathchat