Topic: What are 'brilliant' activities with manipulatives?
As it happened on Thursday, 5th August 23:30 - 00:30 GMT
11:31 pm
ColinTGraham:
Hello everyone, welcome to this week's chat! #mathchat
11:32 pm
ColinTGraham:
If it is your first time, I recommend TweetGrid for #mathchat http://bit.ly/ca6WA4
11:33 pm
ColinTGraham:
Don't worry about trying to follow everything if it moves too fast, you can check the archive later. #mathchat
11:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
Tonight's topic: "What are 'brilliant' activities with manipulatives?" Online or physical... #mathchat
11:34 pm
ColinTGraham:
Who wants to start us off? #mathchat
11:35 pm
mthman:
How do YOU define manipulatives? #mathchat
11:35 pm
cybraryman1:
When my site & Twitter get back up & running better: Math Manipulative cached page:http://bit.ly/aWv4rD #mathchat
11:35 pm
ccampbel14:
What percentages of teachers do you think use manipulatives regularlyl in class? #mathchat
11:35 pm
ghewgley:
I'm curious to see what others are doing! I'm a Smartboard user, plus I like to use real life manipulatives as well. #mathchat
11:35 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@oxtralite's National Library of Virtual Manipulatives rocks! #mathchat
11:36 pm
ColinTGraham:
http://nlvm.usu.edu/en/nav/vlibrary.html #mathchat
11:36 pm
ccampbel14:
I think manipulatives are any tools that you can use to help think mathematically. Professionally created, home-made, etc. #mathchat
11:36 pm
mthman:
Do you count computer-based applets as manipulatives (virtual manipulatives)? #mathchat
11:36 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@mthman I define "manipulative" as a pedagogical tool for learning through spatial manipulation (possibly virtual) #mathchat
11:37 pm
ColinTGraham:
Sometimes people use the term 'maths' lab for something that provides students a chance to 'play' with something. #mathchat
11:37 pm
ccampbel14:
I think applets link the concrete manipulatives to the symbolic. But they could be if they are interactive. #mathchat
11:37 pm
mthman:
Here is a great resource for virtual manipulatives http://www.shodor.org/interactivate/ #mathchat
11:38 pm
ccampbel14:
Do you think that a pencil is a manipulative? #mathchat
11:38 pm
ColinTGraham:
I think anything which requires the student to do something to something else and observe the effect is a manipulative #mathchat
11:39 pm
ghewgley:
I like the transparency mode in Smartboard 10.6. It lets a student measure/draw anything that shows up on the Smartboard. #mathchat
11:39 pm
ccampbel14:
I think that virtual manipulatives are manipulatives if students are using the site, not watching the teacher do it. #mathchat
11:40 pm
mthman:
@ccampbel14 My point exactly...pencil? dice? protractor? unit cubes? #mathchat
11:40 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @MariaDroujkova: I define "manipulative" as a pedagogical tool for learning through spatial manipulation (possibly virtual) #mathchat
11:40 pm
ghewgley:
A pencil can be a manipulative. #mathchat
11:40 pm
ccampbel14:
Watching someone use manips is like watching a cooking show and then being asked to make the recipe! #mathchat
11:41 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Does this mean you think rulers, protractors etc. are manipulatives? #mathchat
11:41 pm
mthman:
BINGO! RT @ccampbel14: I think virtual MANIPULATIVES if students are using the site, not watching the teacher do it. #mathchat
11:41 pm
ghewgley:
Fraction bars, scales, measuring tapes, etc are all useful. #mathchat
11:42 pm
ccampbel14:
In the past the only the 'slower' students used manips. Has this changed? The perception changed? #mathchat
11:42 pm
mthman:
@ghewgley Exactly...can you use a pencil to measure, a straighedge, spinner? #mathchat
11:42 pm
ColinTGraham:
Do we all agree that a manipulative is something which gives students a hands-on view of mathematics? #mathchat
11:42 pm
ccampbel14:
I think all students should experience manips but quite often the top kids fight it. What do you do? #mathchat
11:42 pm
ghewgley:
If you use something, you are manipulating it. So if you measure with a ruler, it is a manipulative. It can be virtual as well. #mathchat
11:42 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@ccampbel14 A pencil as a writing tool is not a manipulative by my definition. But if you build out of pencils, then yes! #mathchat
11:43 pm
Saskateach:
I hope so RT @ccampbel14: In the past the only the 'slower' students used manips. Has this changed? The perception changed? #mathchat
11:43 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @ColinTGraham: Do we all agree that a manipulative is something which gives students a hands-on view of mathematics? #mathchat
11:44 pm
mthman:
@Saskateach It has in my room! I try to build every lesson around something concrete or a simulation. #mathchat
11:44 pm
ghewgley:
I think the brightest students use manipulatives the most. #mathchat
11:44 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@ghewgley Measuring is spatial, so measurement activities have to do with manipulatives for me... #mathchat
11:45 pm
Saskateach:
I think manips enhance students abilities to visualize prob/ solutions as well as understanding of math concepts. #mathchat
11:45 pm
ColinTGraham:
RT @ccampbel14: I think all students should experience manips but quite often the top kids fight it. What do you do? #mathchat
11:45 pm
ccampbel14:
@ghewgley Really? I find that most top students say the don't need to use materials, they can do it in their head. #mathchat
11:45 pm
mthman:
The scaffolding is more natural too! RT @ghewgley: I think the brightest students use manipulatives the most. #mathchat
11:46 pm
padgets:
#mathchat it has been 2 weeks since you kindly offered to help me get better at math, doing the tutorials on web, am getting better :-0
11:46 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@ccampbel14 It depends on activity - it's hard to formulate a new topology theorem or build a math sculpture "in your head" #mathchat
11:46 pm
mthman:
@ccampbel14 I agree, but they also fight writing about it, sharing, showing work, etc...need to model oral problem solving w/them! #mathchat
11:47 pm
ccampbel14:
@MariaDroujkova I agree that manips are not just for the weaker kids. Haven't heard the terms human math & ethnomath often. #mathchat
11:47 pm
mthman:
Yay! RT @padgets: has been 2 weeks since you kindly offered 2help me get better at math, the tutorials, am getting better :-0 #mathchat
11:48 pm
ccampbel14:
@mthman You are SO right. They fight really having to think about mathematics. They are quite happy getting an answer. #mathchat
11:48 pm
mathheadinc:
@MariaDroujkova Math 2.0 was great last night! #mathchat
11:48 pm
ColinTGraham:
Great! So, who should manips be aimed at/used with? RT @padgets: ... doing the tutorials on web, am getting better :-0 #mathchat
11:49 pm
ghewgley:
I'm not saying the weakest kids do not benefit from manips, I'm just saying they are worse at using them in the beginning. #mathchat
11:49 pm
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14: @mthman I let my students find out the hard way that not writing discoveries slows learning. #mathchat
11:49 pm
mthman:
@ccampbel14 Heard this somewhere...GIVE them the solution...make them show a correct procedure! Make them find the error & explain #mathchat
11:50 pm
mathheadinc:
@ColinTGraham Manips should be aimed at every student. Why not? #mathchat
11:50 pm
mthman:
@ghewgley Weak kids need good modeling...need to be explicitly taught to think through a situation! #mathchat
11:50 pm
ccampbel14:
@mthman I was just going to say that. It was in the past couple of weeks on Twitter. It was like a lightbulb going on for me. Wow! #mathchat
11:50 pm
ColinTGraham:
Me and @coachGinsburg! RT @mthman: GIVE them the solution...make them show a correct procedure! Make them find the error & explain #mathchat
11:50 pm
padgets:
#mathchat in my guided study the kids who can see the answer as well as write the answer do much better
11:50 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@mathheadinc Math 2.0 was great in large part because you were there :-) Come again. Alan Kay hosts this Saturday #mathchat
11:51 pm
ColinTGraham:
What manips would be meaningful for higher-level students? #mathchat
11:51 pm
mthman:
@ColinTGraham @coachGinsburg! I knew there was a reason I like you! #mathchat
11:51 pm
ghewgley:
Manips should be targeted at those who are currently unable to grasp a concept. It should be used by all - in the beginning. #mathchat
11:51 pm
jrsteach:
@ghewgley manips are impt going from concrete to abstract #mathchat
11:52 pm
mathheadinc:
@mthman Have weak ones start with a simple idea, tell them to figure out a way, then build on that. #mathchat
11:52 pm
Saskateach:
I agree with every student until they are comfortable enough to do it without. They are a tool to aid/enhance understanding. #mathchat
11:52 pm
ccampbel14:
I think we have 2 support teachers on how 2 integrate manips. It isn't just giving kids the tools & letting them go! #mathchat
11:52 pm
mathheadinc:
@MariaDroujkova Thank you! I'm already thinking about the next one! :DDD #mathchat
11:52 pm
ghewgley:
@mthman Exactly. They can't picture the process - hence the manipulatives. #mathchat
11:52 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@ghewgley Weak students have most trouble connecting different representations of math, including manipulatives #mathchat
11:53 pm
mthman:
@mathheadinc Yes! Help them see learn how to learn, accept success, and grow from there! #mathchat
11:53 pm
ColinTGraham:
Anyone use fingers? (beyond counting of course!) #mathchat
11:53 pm
ccampbel14:
I have seen some teachers try using manips & it is a free-for-all b/c the teacher thinks they can't help or guide. #mathchat
11:53 pm
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 Don't you think teachers should be taught that for their degrees? #mathchat
11:53 pm
ghewgley:
@jrsteach Absolutely, especially for those who are in between and need the bridge between concrete and abstract. #mathchat
11:54 pm
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 What activities do you think need special attention if manips are introduced? #mathchat
11:54 pm
padgets:
#mathchat Iany visible way to demostrate a math concept helps, whether it is a paper square or a fancy flash tutorial on the web all good
11:54 pm
mthman:
Name a topic and a favorite simulation that helps develop their skills in that area... #mathchat
11:54 pm
MariaDroujkova:
Finger multiplication, finger binary, counting on fingers to 10^8... Love finger math! #mathchat
11:55 pm
ghewgley:
@MariaDroujkova That's where modeling, modeling, modeling comes in - with lots of explanations and thinking out-loud. #mathchat
11:55 pm
Saskateach:
We need to model and have students model efficient use of manips. They are math tools not free for all toys. #mathchat
11:55 pm
ColinTGraham:
Which teachers? Maths/Primary/All? RT @mathheadinc: @ccampbel14 Don't you think teachers should be taught that for their degrees? #mathchat
11:55 pm
ccampbel14:
@mathheadinc Absolutely! I had very little experience with manips in university. We need lots of practice-how 2 set ground rules.. #mathchat
11:55 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@ccampbel14 You need some "free play" time with manipulatives, but then modeling and sharing should happen within the group #mathchat
11:56 pm
padgets:
@MariaDroujkova #mathchat where can I learn how to do finger math?
11:56 pm
MariaDroujkova:
@ghewgley "Thinking out loud" is so valuable in general :-) #mathchat
11:57 pm
mthman:
I've become a big fan of smaller learning "centers" in class...small group sharing instead of whole class sharing... #mathchat
11:57 pm
ccampbel14:
Marilyn Burns has a great list of 7 "musts" to use manips effectively. Discuss why u use them, routine to hand out & collect, etc. #mathchat
11:57 pm
TheHomeworkDog:
RT @cybraryman1: When my site & Twitter get back up & running better: Math Manipulative cached page: http://bit.ly/aWv4rD #mathchat
11:57 pm
ColinTGraham:
Is there a perception that Lego/blocks/counters/cuisenaire rods etc. are toys and that they are not 'real maths'? #mathchat
11:57 pm
mthman:
@MariaDroujkova @padgets Would love to learn the rules for multiplication w/fingers! #mathchat
11:58 pm
ghewgley:
@MariaDroujkova You're right. It's hard to guess what someone is thinking. In math people give up when they can't follow you. #mathchat
11:58 pm
mathheadinc:
@ColinTGraham All! I've tutor math ed students, much of what they must learn for math is useless. #mathchat
11:58 pm
TheHomeworkDog:
RT @mthman: Here is a great resource for virtual manipulatives http://bit.ly/a9Fy89 #mathchat
11:58 pm
mthman:
@ColinTGraham I hope not...I think that is why www.legoengineering.com is growing... #mathchat
11:58 pm
padgets:
@MariaDroujkova #mathchat thanks for letting me know!!!! :-0)
11:58 pm
mathheadinc:
@ColinTGraham I think they need to learn how to make complicated math simple enough for young people to understand, as Don does. #mathchat
11:59 pm
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham Yes, many kids think they r toys. I let them play the 1st day & say they r play toys. Next day they are thinker toys #mathchat
11:59 pm
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 Excatly. Just ask a kid to make patterns with things and find the math in it. Exciting things will happen. #mathchat

12:00 am
ccampbel14:
I explain that engineers use tools to pass their exams so the manips are the tools we use to help think about math & do math #mathchat
12:00 am
mathchat:
Seting up Math lab http://bit.ly/d5z0k8 #mathchat
12:00 am
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham I took a short course on Chisanbop math. Is that what you are talking about? #mathchat
12:00 am
mthman:
Sweet! RT @ColinTGraham Wrote a paper on finger multiplication when I was doing my training! I can dig it out for you! #mathchat
12:00 am
mathchat:
Math Manipulative Acitivities: http://bit.ly/a6sZKP #mathchat
12:01 am
ghewgley:
@ccampbel14 Tying manips to the real world helps my students a lot. #mathchat
12:01 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 Basically times tables up to five (and beyond) using modular arithmetic... #mathchat
12:01 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 @TheMathman does the same things and he teaches calculus to young people. It works extremely well. #mathchat
12:01 am
mthman:
Anyone use this site before? http://www.cut-the-knot.org/games.shtml #mathchat
12:02 am
ColinTGraham:
@mathchat is tweeting out some links you can check out later! #mathchat
12:02 am
Saskateach:
I've always found that the secret to change manips from toys to tools was to change my language w/ students. #mathchat
12:02 am
mathchat:
Improving teaching by using manips: http://bit.ly/cEXobB #mathchat
12:03 am
ccampbel14:
Or do you not asses the use of manips? Let them use what they need and assess the process & result? #mathchat
12:03 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 What if they write a report on what patterns they found? #mathchat
12:03 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 How does concretely apply to abstract concepts? What areas of the curriculum are difficult to assess this way? #mathchat
12:03 am
MariaDroujkova:
Finger multiplication 6-10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eFnzNw10Qc #mathchat
12:04 am
ccampbel14:
Is there a difference between a student who shows how they do something with manips versus paper & pencil? #mathchat
12:04 am
jrsteach:
@Saskateach I talk about the diff between tools & toys and manps we call math tools in my kdg room #mathchat
12:04 am
mathchat:
Learning Mathematics with virtual manipulatives: http://bit.ly/1gcyd1 #mathchat
12:04 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 I only remember using manips in kindergarten. Would have been useful throughout school. #mathchat
12:05 am
MariaDroujkova:
Binary system counting on fingers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLBCL0qW908 #mathchat
12:05 am
Saskateach:
Can we assess efficient use? RT @ccampbel14:Or do u not asses use of manips? Let them use what they need & assess process & result?#mathchat
12:05 am
bosoxfan9819:
RT @ghewgley: Playing with manips is actually learning. Nothing wrong with playing - up to a point... #mathchat
12:06 am
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham Most of my curriculum includes concrete but it isn't always possible. Will have to think about this. #mathchat
12:06 am
msseessm:
RT @MariaDroujkova: Finger multiplication 6-10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eFnzNw10Qc#mathchat
12:06 am
ColinTGraham:
In case anyone is unfamiliar with the term chisanbop is a South Korean finger math for doing abacus-like arithmetic! #mathchat
12:06 am
mthman:
@Saskateach Best way to assess is through f2f interaction/observation.... #mathchat
12:06 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 Yeahm that! #mathchat
12:06 am
jrsteach:
@ccampbel14 it would be neat to read the research findings on manips to paper/pencil & standardized tests #mathchat
12:06 am
ccampbel14:
@Saskateach Perhaps we can't assess efficient use but correct use? #mathchat
12:07 am
grade1:
@ccampbel14 No, that's why I always have a camera ready. Explaining thinking & showing with manipulatives can be captured easily. #mathchat
12:07 am
ghewgley:
@ccampbel14 "How do you assess the use of manips?" Answer (maybe) is: Are they getting the concepts down? #mathchat
12:07 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 Last night's Math 2.0 on calculus provided many fine examples of concrete being applied or extensible to the abstract #mathchat
12:07 am
ccampbel14:
Do you all assess the use of manips? Is it a requirement for your curriculum? #mathchat
12:08 am
mthman:
@Saskateach You could also pose problems that show the manipulatives and ask students to translate it #mathchat
12:08 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 I tell them they are mathematical scientists and they must write all their results! They like that. #mathchat
12:08 am
ColinTGraham:
Mathematical tools such as rulers and protractors need to be assessed, but do others manips? #mathchat
12:08 am
MariaDroujkova:
Manipulatives can be used for construction tasks, art, and problem-solving. All can be assessed with rubrics #mathchat
12:09 am
Saskateach:
@jrsteach called them tools in my K-3 classrms too. They understand tools 4 construction these r tools to construct understanding #mathchat
12:09 am
grade1:
@ghewgley That's why I always have a camera ready. Let them explain thinking (video) & take pictures. #mathchat
12:09 am
ccampbel14:
@mathheadinc Mathematical scientists - great! I have used the term math private investigators - Math P.I.s #mathchat
12:09 am
mthman:
@ccampbel14 Not a requirement...I tell students manipulatives are crutches until you've taught yourself to think abstractly. #mathchat
12:09 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 Manips are a means to an end: helping kids visualize and understand math patterns. #mathchat
12:10 am
ccampbel14:
@mthman Do you think there are some people that can't move to the abstract & must always rely on manips? #mathchat
12:10 am
MariaDroujkova:
In Soviet Union all assessments were either essays (for problem-solving) or oral exams (for theory) #mathchat
12:10 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 Oh, Math P.I., I like that very much. Solving mysteries is a very sticky method. Must borrow htat :D #mathchat
12:10 am
mthman:
@ccampbel14 Absolutely...and that is okay so long as they don't give up or give in to a negative stigma... #mathchat
12:11 am
ColinTGraham:
I have had insights about other things while 'playing', doing origami for example... manips don't have to be tied in directly #mathchat
12:11 am
Saskateach:
@ccampbel14 but one can be correct and not efficient. If they are using manips in a way that is inefficient wld u model a diff way?#mathchat
12:11 am
ccampbel14:
@MariaDroujkova Essays or oral exams, wow! Did all students learn how to perform well for these tests? #mathchat
12:11 am
MariaDroujkova:
@ccampbel14 People who can't move to the abstract would not be able to acquire speech, since it's metaphor-based #mathchat
12:11 am
Saskateach:
Good idea RT @mthman: @Saskateach You could also pose problems that show the manipulatives and ask students to translate it #mathchat
12:12 am
ghewgley:
@MariaDroujkova I've learned to use whatever it takes to get the students to learn. Learning is the goal, not the process. #mathchat
12:12 am
ccampbel14:
@Saskateach I would ask all students to share their methods & hopefully they would see another way that would be more efficient. #mathchat
12:12 am
ColinTGraham:
I think it is possible for many to grasp a mathematical concept but not to verbalize or explain it. Manips can help show understdg #mathchat
12:12 am
padgets:
#mathchat @ccampbel14 that was one thing for me I have problems with spatial relations, so abstract was one of my worst subjects
12:13 am
mthman:
@Saskateach That is one way I teach two-step & multi-step equations... #mathchat
12:13 am
ccampbel14:
@MariaDroujkova Never heard that before about speech. Then why is it so hard for some people to move to the abstract in math? #mathchat
12:13 am
ccampbel14:
Can anyone think of how to use manips with order of operations? #mathchat
12:14 am
ColinTGraham:
The blog post @mthman mentioned earlier about showing working: http://bit.ly/b1e3PK #mathchat
12:14 am
mthman:
@MariaDroujkova @ccampbel14 You are so right! They must acquire the language first...make them use the terminology. #mathchat
12:14 am
ghewgley:
Speech and abstract thinking use different parts of the brain. #mathchat
12:14 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 Yes, need more than 140. #mathchat
12:14 am
ccampbel14:
I find that the use of manips is quite natural in younger grades and becomes more challenging through junior high & high school. #mathchat
12:14 am
mthman:
@ccampbel14 Have you tried developing a flowchart for order of ops (OOO)? #mathchat
12:15 am
ColinTGraham:
Using language, for me, must come after a demonstration of understanding/application, otherwise it is meaningless #mathchat
12:15 am
mthman:
RT @ColinTGraham: The blog post @mthman mentioned earlier about showing working:http://bit.ly/b1e3PK #mathchat
12:15 am
Saskateach:
Agree RT @ColinTGraham: I think it's possible 4 many 2 grasp math concept but not verbalize/explain it. Manips can show understdg #mathchat
12:15 am
ccampbel14:
I guess I have used a flowchart for OOO. Is that a manipulative? Or could we make a simple machine to represent it? #mathchat
12:16 am
ghewgley:
Manipulatives change as you get older, but necessarily the use of manipulatives - just different toys! #mathchat
12:16 am
mathheadinc:
@ColinTGraham Don and I tell kids to explain the best way they can. We help them find the words. #mathchat
12:16 am
mthman:
@ccampbel14 Good question...that's why I asked about a definition. I think a flowchart (virtual, paper, or simple machine) is! #mathchat
12:16 am
ccampbel14:
Quite often, if a student can't explain their thinking, I ask them what they 'did' & they can show me & it seems much easier. #mathchat
12:17 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 Lego or cuisenaire rods to show additive/commutative/distributive. #mathchat
12:17 am
ccampbel14:
RT @ColinTGraham: Think it's possible 4 many 2 grasp math concept but not verbal/explain it. Manips can show understdg #mathchat
12:18 am
ColinTGraham:
Yes, kids like to know the 'big' words! RT @mathheadinc: Don & I tell kids to explain the best way they can. We help find words. #mathchat
12:19 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 I always had a stack of origami paper (squares), Lego big red bucket and at least 3 boxes of cuisenaire rods... #mathchat
12:19 am
jrsteach:
@mthman math language is like a foreign language to kids #mathchat
12:20 am
Saskateach:
@ccampbel14 Manip lists per grade wld depend on grade students and teacher #mathchat. We have lists in our curric as a guide.
12:20 am
ghewgley:
The important part of all this is scaffolding and modeling. #mathchat
12:20 am
ColinTGraham:
@mathheadinc Yes, for example once kids spot 3x5 = 5x3 you can label it... #mathchat
12:21 am
mathheadinc:
@joelsopp When you can't show how you did it then you must have been cheating. #mathchat
12:21 am
mthman:
@jrsteach True...but if you learn to adapt it to their language...instead of cancelling, we used "Angela's Rule" last year! #mathchat
12:21 am
ghewgley:
@jrsteach Math is a language. 2 + 2 = 4 is a sentence. Numbers are symbols, letters are symbols. #mathchat
12:21 am
ccampbel14:
Some of my favourite professional produced manips are: cuisenaire rods, different types of cubes, pattern blocks & geoboards. #mathchat
12:22 am
Saskateach:
@joelsopp do you think u had a real understanding when u could get answer but not explain how? #mathchat
12:22 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 Keep track by how much sense it sense. #mathchat
12:22 am
mathchat:
Chisanbop for addition: http://www.ehow.com/how_4861020_finger-math-basic-addition-counting.html #mathchat
12:22 am
mthman:
@jrsteach Then when a student doesn't remember "Angela's Rule" someone in the class explains. It takes time, but they OWN it. #mathchat
12:23 am
mthman:
Any middle school teachers (math or science)? Excellent resource: http://www.msteacher2.org/#mathchat
12:23 am
math2go:
RT @ccampbel14: Some of my favourite professional produced manips are: cuisenaire rods, different types of cubes, pattern blocks & geoboards. #mathchat
12:23 am
ColinTGraham:
I was able to explain placeholder systems and work with bases when I was around 8, but never called it that till I was much older! #mathchat
12:23 am
mathheadinc:
@ccampbel14 I mean keep track by how much sense the reasoning makes. #mathchat
12:23 am
ccampbel14:
I love beginning with a story, using manips and then asking students for questions they might ask. This leads to great P-S. #mathchat
12:24 am
mathheadinc:
@ColinTGraham Yeah, but I make THEM label it after I show them how :) #mathchat
12:25 am
math2go:
@ghewgley: math is the 'language' of science. However, it is not a language in the sense of other languages. #mathchat
12:25 am
ColinTGraham:
So, in the last five minutes or so, what activity with manips do you always use because of its effectiveness? #mathchat
12:25 am
mthman:
@msseessm We developed "Angela's Rule" when working w/Alg Tiles. The 1st step, "canceling on both sides" became "Angela's Rule" #mathchat
12:26 am
ccampbel14:
I forgot, I love algebra tiles. Students can learn many things on their own with my guidance right up into high school. #mathchat
12:26 am
POWERORGmath:
#mathchat Video clips & livescribe.com Smartpens are good 4 our higher ed studs
12:26 am
ColinTGraham:
However, it is not a language in the sense of other languages @math2go Oh big disagree with that! You haven't read my blog post! #mathchat
12:26 am
mthman:
@ColinTGraham Algebra Tiles for solving equations! #mathchat
12:27 am
ghewgley:
@math2go We're just arguing semantics here. Both, in written form, are symbol based communication. #mathchat
12:27 am
padgets:
@mthman can I ask you to share the whole rule? #mathchat love to learn it :-)
12:27 am
mathheadinc:
@math2go Uhh, it has nouns, verbs, adjectives. Not a language in what sense? #mathchat
12:27 am
mthman:
Algebra Tiles allow for great abstract work w/area & perimeter, factoring, & problem solving! #mathchat
12:27 am
ccampbel14:
A big lesson I've learned about manips is the order they are presented. I tried manips after solving equations symbol - disaster! #mathchat
12:27 am
joelsopp:
Not true. Some can do it. @Saskateach RT @mathheadinc: @joelsopp When you can't show how you did it then you must be cheating. #mathchat
12:27 am
ccampbel14:
Have to remember concretely, pictorially and then symbolically/abstractly #mathchat
12:28 am
ColinTGraham:
Tangrams for area, congruence, shape names, triangles, similarity, area, rotations, symmetry... fun! #mathchat
12:28 am
mthman:
@padgets Absolutely...let me think about the best way to demo it, then I'll tweet it out. #mathchat
12:28 am
ghewgley:
@joelsopp Some, but not many. #mathchat
12:28 am
ccampbel14:
Geoaboards are great for perimeter, area, Pythagoriean, square #s, If it has 100 squares - percents, decimals, etc. too #mathchat
12:29 am
ColinTGraham:
Also, if you accept Piaget/Vygotsky, then moving to the abstract before 11 or so may be a waste of time... #mathchat
12:29 am
POWERORGmath:
Just waving at #mathchat & #mbachat
12:29 am
ccampbel14:
I love the feel of wooden pattern blocks. Great for shape & space - polygons, angles, sides, patterns, etc. #mathchat
12:29 am
mthman:
@ccampbel14 Oooh...I forgot about geoboards! Love it! How about symmetry? #mathchat
12:29 am
mathheadinc:
@joelsopp I know. I was being facetious! Teachers want to know how you get ans bc you can still get right answers w/wrong methods. #mathchat
12:29 am
coreman2200:
RT @ghewgley: Math is a language. 2 + 2 = 4 is a sentence. Numbers are symbols, letters are symbols. #mathchat
12:30 am
joelsopp:
@Saskateach Yes, I truly feel that way. Some people can just figure things out without showing the pathway. #mathchat
12:30 am
ccampbel14:
Geoboards are also good for transformations - translations, reflections & rotations #mathchat
12:30 am
ColinTGraham:
OK, 140 characters and the time as usual are not enough! The archive of today's chat will be online in about 30 mins. #mathchat
12:30 am
ccampbel14:
@mthman Yes, I just added a tweet about transformations #mathchat
12:30 am
Saskateach:
So true it's a continuum RT @ccampbel14: Have to remember concretely, pictorially and then symbolically/abstractly #mathchat
12:30 am
mathheadinc:
@joelsopp And the higher the education goes the more one must be able to show how or no credit. #mathchat
12:31 am
ghewgley:
@ColinTGraham Piaget's time frames are "averages" and in no way specific times. Some students move faster, some not at all. #mathchat
12:31 am
ccampbel14:
Does any1 use base 10 materials? I've been told that they simply represent our base 10 system but don't help kids think about it. #mathchat
12:31 am
ColinTGraham:
If you want to revisit the topic, then we will be chatting again on Monday 19:30 GMT #mathchat
12:31 am
MariaDroujkova:
@ccampbel14 Did everybody learn to perform well? We wish, lol! But people had harder time with multiple choice when that started #mathchat
12:32 am
joelsopp:
@ghewgley True. #mathchat
12:32 am
ColinTGraham:
@ghewgley Yes, I know. But basically the abstract is only going to work once the concrete is there... No concrete, no foundation! #mathchat
12:33 am
ColinTGraham:
Thank you again everyone or another stimulating #mathchat
12:33 am
math2go:
@ColinTGraham well send it to me if you will, but I still don't see grammar, tense, etc. #mathchat
12:33 am
joelsopp:
My bad...lol RT @mathheadinc: @joelsopp I know. I was being facetious! #mathchat
12:33 am
math2go:
RT @mthman: @ColinTGraham Algebra Tiles for solving equations! #mathchat <definitely aglebra tiles - the area model!
12:33 am
ghewgley:
@joelsopp That's why I try to figure out how the student is thinking (or I ask him/her) to avoid this. #mathchat
12:33 am
math2go:
RT @ghewgley: @math2go We're just arguing semantics here. Both, in written form, are symbol based communication. #mathchat <probably so!
12:34 am
padgets:
#mathchat thanks everybody for letting a science geek join the conversation, always learn something from you folks!
12:34 am
ColinTGraham:
@math2go as a quick example of grammar, how about order of operations? #mathchat
12:34 am
Saskateach:
@ccampbel14 I agree about base 10 blocks they are cumbersome for larger numbers. Students tend to prefer quick drawings over them #mathchat
12:35 am
ColinTGraham:
Feel free to keep chatting everyone! #mathchat
12:35 am
mathheadinc:
@joelsopp Cool. The other problem is, kids who only write answers do poorly in the long run. #mathchat
12:35 am
mthman:
Thanks for great convo tweeps! @ccampbel14 @padgets @jrsteach @Saskateach @ColinTGraham@msseessm @mathheadinc @ghewgley #mathchat
12:35 am
math2go:
@mathheadinc I see it as building on the language that we already use, along with a hefty dose of latin & greek #mathchat
12:35 am
ghewgley:
@math2go Language is a form of communication. Math sentences communicate something. #mathchat
12:35 am
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham Abstract after the concrete - an e.g. would be basic facts. Until they understand they won't speed up (timed tests) #mathchat
12:36 am
mathheadinc:
@joelsopp We tell students, "The more work you show. the faster your grades will get better, the sooner you get rid of the tutor." #mathchat
12:36 am
Saskateach:
@ColinTGraham Thanks for the great discussion. My Internet is down so using my phone. Feels so much slower. #mathchat
12:36 am
ccampbel14:
Great convo tweeps! @mthman @ccampbel14 @padgets @jrsteach @Saskateach @ColinTGraham@msseessm @mathheadinc @ghewgley #mathchat
12:37 am
math2go:
I love chips for adding & subtracting integers using zero pairs too #mathchat
12:37 am
ColinTGraham:
@ccampbel14 Yes, I tend to work using the revised Bloom's taxonomy for both ESL and maths and IT and... #mathchat
12:37 am
ccampbel14:
@ColinTGraham Not that I agree with timed tests...many people ask me about that. They also ask about practice sheets & flashcards #mathchat
12:38 am
ColinTGraham:
@Saskateach It gives you more time to think Jen, unless you're shopping too! #mathchat
12:38 am
ghewgley:
@mathheadinc I think the lack of "showing work" greatly limits feedback in math. Some students don't need it, but most need lots. #mathchat
12:38 am
Saskateach:
Thanks 4 the great conversation everyone. Always a pleasure:) #mathchat
12:39 am
mathheadinc:
@math2go I can see that. #mathchat
12:39 am
ColinTGraham:
OK I am off to archive. Catch you later everyone! #mathchat
12:39 am
mathheadinc:
RT @mthman: TY for great convo tweeps! @ccampbel14 @padgets @jrsteach @Saskateach@ColinTGraham @msseessm @mathheadinc @ghewgley #mathchat
12:39 am
ccampbel14:
My husband just asked if my mathchat is finished. Guess he wants help with the kids. See you all next time! #mathchat
12:40 am
ghewgley:
Timed tests test the wrong thing. They test how fast you work, not necessarily if you can answer the questions. #mathchat
12:40 am
mathheadinc:
@ghewgley Feedback from teachers? #mathchat
12:40 am
ghewgley:
Thanks everyone. I love the sharing of your ideas! #mathchat
12:40 am
ccampbel14:
@math2go I also use the small unit pieces from algebra tiles for integers. Nice square shapes for mult & div #mathchat
12:40 am
math2go:
@ColinTGraham not surprisingly someone in #edchat convinced me that it was not a complete language- maybe it's a dialect! :) #mathchat
12:41 am
ghewgley:
@mathheadinc Feedback from teachers, checking your own work (self), feedback from peers, etc. #mathchat
12:42 am
ColinTGraham:
@math2go I always ask the doubters why Chomsky had to use mathematical symbology to notate Universal Grammar... ;-) #mathchat
12:42 am
mathheadinc:
@math2go Chips as in fries or pokers chips or...?#mathchat
12:43 am
ghewgley:
@math2go I would maybe go with "it's not a complete language" but are computer languages languages? #mathchat
12:43 am
ccampbel14:
Okay, I am really going now...hard to tear myself away. I love talking math! #mathchat
12:43 am
ColinTGraham:
Or potato crisps? RT @mathheadinc: @math2go Chips as in fries or pokers chips or...?#mathchat
12:43 am
mathheadinc:
@ghewgley YES! I want my students to remember what they did. Answers aren't enough for that unless memory is photographic. #mathchat
12:44 am
JustKDean:
@BLAKOBEN didn't know about #mathchat gonna hafta peep it out
12:44 am
mathheadinc:
THOSE, TOO! RT @ColinTGraham: Or potato crisps? RT @mathheadinc: @math2go Chips as in fries or pokers chips or...?#mathchat
12:45 am
ghewgley:
@mathheadinc So it's the process that's important? #mathchat
12:45 am
math2go:
@mathheadinc lol , not fries!- two-color poker chips. one side positive, one side negative #mathchat
12:46 am
mathheadinc:
@math2go Just wonderin'! I thought that's what you meant. #mathchat
12:47 am
mathheadinc:
@ghewgley Now you have it. The process gets A's. Answers change, processes don't. #mathchat
12:47 am
math2go:
@ghewgley or is cat talk or dog talk a language? I guess it's pretty hard to define. #mathchat
12:49 am
ghewgley:
@mathheadinc That's why showing your work is showing the process you went through. #mathchat
12:49 am
Caro_lann:
Sorry I'm late. I use string. Make curves of equations- line, quad, cubic and move to change coefficients. All on floor.#mathchat
12:50 am
mathheadinc:
CORRECT! RT @ghewgley: @mathheadinc That's why showing your work is showing the process you went through. #mathchat
12:50 am
ghewgley:
@math2go I tell my students that math is a language, and like language it has to make sense (answers and process). #mathchat
12:51 am
math2go:
I also like unit cubes so students can see sides to draw nets #mathchat many cannot visualize in three dimensions
12:51 am
mathheadinc:
@math2go I had a cat once and I knew when he was saying, "I want to eat that bird." #mathchat
12:52 am
math2go:
@ghewgley I like that. It is kid language! #mathchat
12:52 am
ghewgley:
@mathheadinc Manipulatives can help the students through the process(es). #mathchat
12:54 am
ghewgley:
@math2go Yes. It's a form of communication - in this case communicating math concepts. #mathchat
12:56 am
math2go:
@ghewgley well if communication=language then I would agree... math is certainly communication! #mathchat
12:56 am
justwonderinY:
@ccampbel14: Have to remember concretely, pictorially and then symbolically/abstractly #mathchat<---- wasn't at mathchat, but love this
12:57 am
ghewgley:
Thanks again #mathchat people - great discussion!
12:59 am
math2go:
RT @ghewgley: Thanks again #mathchat people - great discussion! < even coming in late, it was thought-provoking! thanks!
1:07 am
ghewgley:
I love my PLN - especially #elemchat #ellchat , and now #mathchat . Thanks to you all!